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Marktm
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Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:15 am

mux wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:48 am

That being said, chademo isn't going down nearly as fast as I expected in 2018. It's very nice that most Shell Recharge stations have a high-power chademo now. I won't use them outside of testing for obvious being-an-oil-company-reasons, but the general public won't care and will be well-served by this new glut of shiny, fairly durable infrastructure. Chademo still has a fair number of years in it, and CDM 2.0 chargers will enable a very cheap upgrade to slightly higher charging power for our customers.
mux - do you see V2X being a determinant in charging type proliferation? Or in reality, the (lack of) availability of the energy conversion equipment being the actual determinant. Nuvve does claim commercial type equipment already available for CCS1.
https://nuvve.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... et-1.1.pdf

I realise this is off-topic and move if needed.
2012 Leaf SL; 46,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

jbsocdelica
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible / Springs for 2011 62kWh

Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:24 pm

Hi Folks;

Thanks to all for this incredible discussion, especially the canbus folks (Muxsan; Daniel Öster, and the awesome New Zealand peeps).

In short, I suspect at some point, I'll need a rear spring part # for a 2011 Leaf after upgrading to 62KwH.

Longer story: I am in the process of having my 2011 Leaf (Beige interior) upgraded to 62KwH by Pavel in Los Angeles. Side note, he has had difficulty with his Russian Canbus guy for that model, so he turned to Daniel Oster in Finland (Yea Daniel) to get a canbus that Pavel has promised will work for everything including quick charge. That should be coming soon (hint, hint Daniel).

From Daniel: "Pairing is not needed when using my solution. Original battery ID is pre-programmed onto the CAN-bridge, after that the vehicle can accept
any 24/30/40/62kWh pack."

So...what do people specifically recommend for rear springs and shocks given the new added and probably significant weight change (for this early model) with specific part #s?

Also, I am looking at some point when Michelins wear out into getting larger tires such as:

205/65R16

- This to raise the car ever so slightly.

Especially as I will be installing:

EcoHitch Hidden Trailer Hitch Receiver - Custom Fit - 2"
Item # 306-X7184

To hold a 65 lb electric bike.

I welcome any feedback on any and all matters raised here related to the upgrade:
a. canbus
b. changing suspension in specifics.
c. larger tire / tyre

Thank you all so much. Hope to give my feedback as I go further in the journey (maybe in Jan. 2021)

p.s. did a minor seat upgrade thanks to someone's idea: [soareyes]
(with M8 1.25 x 45 bolt)
(Used 45 mm with some spacer bolts)

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=9051
Last edited by jbsocdelica on Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

mux
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Leaf Number: 6177

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:28 am

E-mail us at info@muxsan.com, we have custom rear springs exactly for this purpose.

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Dala
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible / Springs for 2011 62kw

Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:40 am

jbsocdelica wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:24 pm
...
Longer story: I am in the process of having my 2011 Leaf (Beige interior) upgraded to 62kwh by Pavel in Los Angeles. Side note, he has had difficulty with his Russian Canbus guy for that model, so he turned to Daniel Oster in Finland (Yea Daniel) to get a canbus that Pavel has promised will work for everything including quick charge. That should be coming soon (hint, hint Daniel).
...
Nice! I would really like a 62kWh pack to experiment with also! Haven't been able to get my hands on one yet.

Please be aware of the current known issues with the BatteryUpgrade software: https://github.com/dalathegreat/Battery ... ual/issues

It is not 100% yet for the US market, but we are getting there slowly but surely :)

jbsocdelica
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Battery Upgrades very possible (Yes: total cost: $8800 for 62kWh))

Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm

Total Cost for my project

$7500 62KwH battery
$1300 installation

$8800 (U.S.) or €7200 (Euro)

notes:

using Dala's canbus


Note, in North America (U.S.) I have heard good things about EV Rides:

https://evridesllc.com/battery-upgrade-service/

Their pricing ranges from 11 to 12k (and for the moment, is only available for 2013-2017 models to get to 62 kWh).

For '11 and '12 they do upgrade from 24kWh to 30 and 40kWh for 5k and 9k respectively.
Last edited by jbsocdelica on Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:34 am, edited 5 times in total.
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

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Stanton
Posts: 2270
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
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Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
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Re: Battery Upgrades very possible (Yes: total cost: $8800)

Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:02 am

jbsocdelica wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm
Total Cost for my project

$7500 62kw battery
$1300 installation

$8800

notes:

using Dala's canbus
Looks like the "market price" is getting established at <$10k "turnkey". I am hoping someone in Dallas (or at least Texas) will start doing this, as I am getting serious about putting a 40 kWh pack (I don't want the added mechanical/weight issues of a 62 kWh pack) in my 2011 Leaf.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
Lithium Pros 12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

jbsocdelica
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:32 am

Stanton; yes...though maybe think of the extra weight of roughly 250lb as an extra person you're driving with.

Here are my thoughts in terms of: A) weight, B) suspension, C) suspension and D) overall reflections.

A) Weight:

This is worth pondering: 2011 Leaf with 62 kWh + just over 250 lb extra weight or...

1) Original Weights:

Approximate Original Weight of Nissan Leaf 2011: 4,322 lb / 1960 kg
Approximate Original Weight of Nissan Leaf 2019: 4,751 lb / 2155 kg

2) Difference between two: 429 lb / 195 kg

3) Approximate weights of battery alone:

64 kw weight: 410 kg (904 lb)
24 kw weight: 294 kg (648 lbs

Difference 116 kg (256 lb)

4) Difference after upgrade: Nissan Leaf 2019 (4751) - Nissan Leaf 2011 with 62 kWh (4322 + 256) 4578 : difference 173lb / 78 kg)


B) Suspension:

I haven't upgraded my suspension nor tires yet; noting that in my first test runs, it drives pretty good as it. In fact today, I'm going to take it to Ojai for the turns.

(On Ojai trip: enjoyed it mostly; and indeed did note some suspension differences; seems more dead than my other 2011 Leaf (because of extra weight and maybe springs / struts?). For the record, we had on two bicycles on the 2" hitch (TH990XT):

EcoHitch Hidden Trailer Hitch Receiver - Custom Fit - 2" Item # 306-X7184

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/ ... PEEALw_wcB

C) Mileage:

Mileage was great even with the load (2 passengers, 2 bikes); at one point guessometer put us at 300 miles left (if we had sustained 40 mph). By the time we finished our 30 mile trip; with some 65 mph stints, we still had over 200 miles estimate on the meter. So far, for my driving 75-86 mph, I get just under 200 miles (with surf racks and Thule hitch rack; will add data as I go along). If you think about my above calculation musings, because the 2011 Leaf weighs less than the 2019 model by about 173 lb / 78 kg, that should improve range, ever so slightly (see first calculations).

I'll note, to raise height (which might be unecessary), I'll go to 205 65 R16 at some point, maybe soon, as Costco has their Michelin sale this week: $436.92 before taxes / $460 otd / Michelin - Defender T + H).

In 10 years (2030) with a mileage loss of 8-10 miles or so per year, I'll still be around the 130 to 150 mark for distance; which isn't bad even if at that time when new car average batteries will probably give 750 miles +/- 150. Some battery loss estimates are at 4.2% per year.

For that rough-stimate calculation I'm using a blog:

"The Leaf has an average degradation rate of 4.2%, while the Model S is 2.3%. Good thermal management means better protection against degradation."

(source: https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/ )

So .042*230 (just under 10 miles a year: 10 years, 100 miles lost, or 130 miles +/- (shorter slower commutes probably in the 170s).

D) Recommendations:

Even though you're leaning to 40 kWh, I highly recommend that you think once more about going the 62 kWh for those reasons, and of course, am open to hearing counter thoughts to help me think this through. I'm pretty sure my installer will fly out to Texas — as he just did job in Atlanta even though he is based in LA County....).

Pavel is not "Turn Key" per se though (yet), as he helped me source the battery, and then he came by to install it.
Last edited by jbsocdelica on Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:36 am, edited 6 times in total.
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

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Stanton
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:07 am

jbsocdelica wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:32 am
Even though you're leaning to 40kw, I highly recommend that you think once more about going the 62kw for those reasons, and of course, am open to hearing counter thoughts to help me think this through. My installer will fly out to Texas -- he just did job in Atlanta even though he is based in LA County....)
This got my attention: you have someone that travel to a given location and perform upgrades...and still keep the cost <$10k turnkey?
Since you asked, there's a couple of things that are keeping me at 40 kWh:
1) I'll never change my tire size (messes with the speedometer, etc.)
2) I sometimes carry my drums around, so there's some extra weight there already...and
3) speak for yourself: I weigh half that! :P
jbsocdelica wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:32 am
Stanton; yes...though maybe think of the extra weight of roughly 250lb as an extra person you're driving with.
I believe I will be OK (long term) if I can just maintain a real 100 mile range (summer/winter/whatever).
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
Lithium Pros 12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

jbsocdelica
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:39 pm

Stanton;

That's a really good point about changing tire size and affecting odometer accuracy. As of yet, I haven't changed the tires (as I still have about 10-15k left on my current Michelin Defenders); I notice if I'm gingerly going over this one really steep driveway (from flat to sharp) I can avoid the rub.

So, I calculated the Leaf 2011 with 64 kWh would come in at about 173lb less than then the Leaf 2019 Extended (see previous post).

With my weight (190 lb), spouse's 120 lb, and bikes (40 lb) + thule (35 lb), that's a cargo load of 385lb / 175 kg.

If you're coming in around 150lb (or under, being so sveltey!) and your kit is 100lb +/-; that's about 250 lb....

I wonder if your goal is to hold onto the car for a decade; and / or you have a different calculation in mind.

Sounds like if you got the 40kWh and your starting range was 170, then after ten years you would probably be about the 100 mile mark which could meet your goals.

If you kept your tires stock, remind me your concerns about the additional 22 kWh?

Also there maybe one more reason for 64 kWh upgrade that I just thought of. Most 62 kWh batteries will be less than 1 year old and have little mileage on them / down time. I wonder what the probabilities are of you getting a hold of a fresh 40 kWh battery?

:)
Last edited by jbsocdelica on Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

alozzy
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Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:34 pm

Two observations to contribute:
  • A larger tire diameter would very likely make the speedometer more accurate, not less. With stock tires, the speedometer is about 5% off (you're going slower than the speedometer reports)
  • The discharge rate of each cell should be lower in a 62 kWh pack vs a 40 kWh pack, so that should mean less heat (assuming similar cell chemistry)
  • On average, the depth of discharge should be lower with the larger pack. Although that's a secondary factor to pack degradation (with ambient temperature being the dominant one), it's still significant.
Last edited by alozzy on Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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Loving my first BEV :D

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