Flyct
Posts: 435
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:04 am
Delivery Date: 05 Dec 2019
Leaf Number: 310009
Location: Bradenton, Florida, US

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:43 am

Flyct wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:01 am
To be clear, kW is a unit of power. kWh is a unit of energy.,,,,,,,,,,,,,

In comparison, we've had some people who were confused and even became ummm.. agitated when people where trying to teach/correct him.
cwerdna,

You need to let this go. We all know what one means even when Kw vs kWh is used. This is a car forum, not a science or English class. We see people miss-using words all the time but we understand. Some examples are Charger instead of ESEV, “there” vs “their”, “your” instead of “you’re” etc.

You would go crazy on some of the truck forums I frequent, where English sometimes seems like a 2nd language. 🤮
I see I screwed up EVSE and stated ESEV. Now that really bothers me because I almost made it through 2020 without making any mistakes.
2020 Leaf SL Plus (replaced totaled 2019:SL+)
2015 Lexus RX450h Hybrid SUV
2019 F-150 XLT Extended cab
2020 Ford F-350 Lariat Ultimate Crew Cab Short Bed Diesel- Tow vehicle
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS 5th Wheel RV

jbsocdelica
Gold Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 1:20 am
Delivery Date: 05 May 2016

Battery Upgrades are very possible (62 kWh cost / $8800))

Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:46 am

@alozzy and @cwerdna,

@alozzy:

That's really something. At the time, it didn't dawn upon me that purchasing the 62 kWh battery at $7500 with shipping was a good find in terms of price value. It felt like a lot of money! Note, there were three listed at the time on the site (and as I recall, all batteries under 5,000 miles). And the seller contacted me a couple of times to see if I wanted more.

Also, my installer (in Los Angeles area), offered me a 40 kWh battery at around $5k but I figured I would enjoy the extra range of the 62 kWh battery (and I do!).

Side note -- I'm thinking about converting my Ghia at some point; though it could be a 30 kWh will be enough; I have much research to do on that...

In terms of my costs:

$7500 62 kWh battery
$1300 installation
=========================
$8800 (U.S.) or €7200 (Euro)

Some states / electric companies (i.e. CA / SCE) provide rebates for used EVs, so that might help some folks reduce that cost even more. In CA, the the current round of SCE rebate, to my knowledge finishes at the end of this year (2020).

cf. https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/ev/i ... nd-federal
and

https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/

Is there a mynissanleaf.com forum thread here that lists current / future (?) incentives within North America by state / province and utility so folks who want to go the route of purchasing an inexpensive used Leaf (i.e. $3k or less) can upgrade with these kinds of incentives?

@cwerdna:

What is the correct nomenclature for a battery with 62 kWh:

is it

a) 62kWh

or

b) 62 kWh

or?

I see you used the space between the two, is it optional?

Aloha

addendum 5/ 2021: Installer is MIA, doesn't answer the phone, has not physical address, though is taking new customers, you've been warned
Last edited by jbsocdelica on Thu May 27, 2021 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15673
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible (62 kWh cost / $8800))

Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:16 am

jbsocdelica wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:46 am
@alozzy and @cwerdna,

@alozzy:

That's really something. At the time, it didn't dawn upon me that purchasing the 62 kWh battery at $7500 with shipping was a good find in terms of price value. It felt like a lot of money! Note, there were three listed at the time on the site (and as I recall, all batteries under 5,000 miles). And the seller contacted me a couple of times to see if I wanted more.

Also, Pavel, my installer (in Los Angeles area), offered me a 40 kWh battery at around $5k but I figured I would enjoy the extra range of the 62 kWh battery (and I do!).

Side note -- I'm thinking about converting my Ghia at some point; though it could be a 30 kWh will be enough; I have much research to do on that...

In terms of my costs:

$7500 62 kWh battery
$1300 installation
=========================
$8800 (U.S.) or €7200 (Euro)

Some states / electric companies (i.e. CA / SCE) provide rebates for used EVs, so that might help some folks reduce that cost even more. In CA, the the current round of SCE rebate, to my knowledge finishes at the end of this year (2020).

cf. https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/ev/i ... nd-federal
and

https://cleanvehiclegrants.org/

Is there a mynissanleaf.com forum thread here that lists current / future (?) incentives within North America by state / province and utility so folks who want to go the route of purchasing an inexpensive used Leaf (i.e. $3k or less) can upgrade with these kinds of incentives?

@cwerdna:

What is the correct nomenclature for a battery with 62 kWh:

is it

a) 62kWh

or

b) 62 kWh

or?

I see you used the space between the two, is it optional?

Aloha
"Accepted" abbreviations for kilowatt-hour;

kWh
KWH
kwhr

Each by rights, should have a dash between the w and h but is acceptable with or without.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jbsocdelica
Gold Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 1:20 am
Delivery Date: 05 May 2016

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:06 pm

@DaveinOlyWA

Very cool! Mahalo




"Accepted" abbreviations for kilowatt-hour;

kWh
KWH
kwhr

Each by rights, should have a dash between the w and h but is acceptable with or without."


Oh, and thanks for posting wiper part numbers from Honda. Been using Costco until now on both of the Leafs.


"
Driver: Honda 76622-STK-A02

Passenger: Honda 76632-STK-A02

Rear: Honda 76622-T7A-003"
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

jbsocdelica
Gold Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 1:20 am
Delivery Date: 05 May 2016

62 KwH 2011 upgrade (pictures with board / bike racks, like an ugly station wagon baby!)

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:38 pm

Ok, the beater-mobile journey continues.

Today, I have my longboard on the racks. I'm not fully charged. Going to go on the 405 / 101 freeways (Los Angeles / Ventura County) with a 10' board, full well knowing, this will eat up battery life like a deranged hungry pacman on PCP.

Nonetheless in the interests of folly science, I'll keep all posted in terms of severe battery use on a 75 mile journey!

This is a sort of a proof of concept trial. That is, using the Leaf as any one would use their station wagon, i.e., full of stuff (surfboard, bikes, etc.). The idea is with these costs that will undoubtedly become even lower over time, the Leaf becomes the all around beater car to do anything in within a 150 mile range when totally loaded....

Oh, and if mileage disappears too rapidly, I can make some interior seat adjustments and just throw the board in the car (towel protecting front glass). Grok that, a 10' Longboard will fit in a 2011 Leaf. Cool beans, eh?


$7500 62 kWh battery
$1300 installation
=========================
$8800 (U.S.) or €7200 (Euro)

+ $3k Used Leaf (2011-2014)

Total $11,800 (minus various incentives, i.e., state / provincial rebates)


The goal here is to demonstrate / encourage others, that if they buy an old Leaf (3k or under) and install battery, you've got a low maintenance / cost and fun car. Hmmmm.

https://i.ibb.co/SfVcFMc/loaded-up-leaf.jpg

https://ibb.co/QH00Z95

Also in reading about how some Tesla suspensions are failing under suspension loads, it's time for me to get back into suspension upgrade thinking. There is a thread here on the forum about that one (Muxan is supposed to write to me about what they have).


Aloha!

post script: had 80 miles left to play with, I think I started out with 189. So took a big hit in the 75 mile journey, and rode the slow lane some of the time... and at end of trip, did my typical 75 / 80 mph.
Last edited by jbsocdelica on Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
02 Gem (curtis controller mod 45 mph)
03 Dynasty IT (mod 48 mph)
11 Leaf (battery replaced $1k compromise)
11 Leaf (62 kWh)
ICE: Delica, VW Bus, Ghia, Volvo122, 400E, AWD Axxess

alozzy
Posts: 1964
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:50 pm

@jbsocdelica The Thule and surf rack adds so much versatility to your LEAF, have fun!

FWIW, there's a shop in Portland, OR (EV Rides: https://evridesllc.com/battery-upgrade-service) that would charge $12k to put a 62 kWh pack in my 2013 LEAF. So, like I mentioned before, you got a great deal! There's only one shop in Vancouver (Precision Auto) offering LEAF pack swaps and their prices aren't even worth mentioning...
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

coulomb
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:08 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 200445
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible (62 kWh cost / $8800))

Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:44 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:16 am
"Accepted" abbreviations for kilowatt-hour;

kWh
KWH
kwhr
The correct abbreviation is the first you stated, i.e. kWh. This is all standardised, but it seems that Americans aren't big on international standards, unless they made the standard.

A colleague of mine wrote an article explaining it all: How to tell a kilowatt hour from a kelvin week henry.
Each by rights, should have a dash between the w and h but is acceptable with or without.
I don't believe that's true (but I'm willing to learn if I'm wrong there). Personally, I hate the dash to imply multiplication, since it's the symbol for subtraction. Better would be to use a dot, even better the middle dot: kW·h.

Edit: As for whether the value should be separated from the unit by a space, yes, that's correct English. But you should really use a narrow space, and the unit should not end up on a different line, so a narrow no-break space (U+202F) is ideal. I can't show an example, since this forum inexplicably seems to forbid most unicode characters.
2012 Leaf with new battery May 2019. New to me June 2019.

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6354
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible (62 kWh cost / $8800))

Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:16 pm

jbsocdelica wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:46 am
is it
a) 62kWh
or
b) 62 kWh
Would you prefer to read 11lbs or 11 lbs ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15673
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible (62 kWh cost / $8800))

Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:39 pm

coulomb wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:44 pm
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:16 am
"Accepted" abbreviations for kilowatt-hour;

kWh
KWH
kwhr
The correct abbreviation is the first you stated, i.e. kWh. This is all standardised, but it seems that Americans aren't big on international standards, unless they made the standard.

A colleague of mine wrote an article explaining it all: How to tell a kilowatt hour from a kelvin week henry.
Each by rights, should have a dash between the w and h but is acceptable with or without.
I don't believe that's true (but I'm willing to learn if I'm wrong there). Personally, I hate the dash to imply multiplication, since it's the symbol for subtraction. Better would be to use a dot, even better the middle dot: kW·h.

Edit: As for whether the value should be separated from the unit by a space, yes, that's correct English. But you should really use a narrow space, and the unit should not end up on a different line, so a narrow no-break space (U+202F) is ideal. I can't show an example, since this forum inexplicably seems to forbid most unicode characters.
So its the difference between ignoring "accepted" and semantics? The problem with that is our language is wholly defined by acceptance. A term is used, coined, distorted, and its meaning becomes common knowledge so its becomes the "officially acceptable" usage of the term, otherwise the dictionary wouldn't be edited EVERY year.

But that is only the beginning. Your kelvin week henry should be spelled out it as it is...weak. Context tells us the person who leads is not metallic.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mux
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:52 am
Delivery Date: 13 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 6177

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:13 am

There's a big difference between technical terms and natural language, and this is the crux of the confusion. Language is very fluid, context-sensitive and by extension it is quite hard to convey precise technical concepts compactly to an audience already familiar with those concepts. This is why jargon and by extension technical definitions exist; they abbreviate unwieldy concepts in natural language and/or things that natlang is not good at describing. A great example of how much natural language you need just to warn people about a hazard is the long-term nuclear radiation warning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-time ... g_messages

As a consequence, in natural language it is fine to fuck up parts of sentences, because natural language is built to be redundant and contextual

In technical writing, it is extremely important to be precise, because it is already - essentially - an extreme abbreviation. The example of a KwH and kWh being decipherable with context is rare - almost any other piece of technical terminology will not be intelligible.

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