mux
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:52 am
Delivery Date: 13 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 6177

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:18 am

Yeah, direct pairing is basically not an option. You need the CAN bridge to actually use the car (safely). There's a bunch of other things that end up not working when you do a nonidentical battery swap with the direct pairing method, like your AC/heater not working, the brake system tripping up every so often and excessive battery drain due to the battery CAN messages not stopping and keeping the CAN system alive when the car is off.

The batteries are mechanically compatible and the connectors are identical, but that's really where compatibility stops. And there's not just compatibility issues between battery generations; within generations there are pretty significant firmware differences. The first few UK and US battery swaps we've done with our kit ended up not being able to (properly) QC, which ended up being a firmware issue. Then a Slovenian (also US import) car came to us and had a whole bunch of other weird LBC/VCM-related quirks with a battery swap. You end up needing to do quite a lot of subtle stuff to make everything work, and even then we've now resorted to installing an extra CAN bridge on the CAR-CAN side to fix some (quality of life) display issues, like fixing the horrible GOM when increasing battery capacity, fixing the battery health meter and fixing the battery bars to actually work linearly.

User avatar
jlv
Moderator
Posts: 1715
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:56 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:49 pm
Here is a way to improve that air cooling. Mount the battery on the roof.
If you actually watch the video, he explains (9:25) that 's just the shell of the old battery (mostly empty). It is not a 2nd battery mounted for use.
You should not try putting [a] full battery on LEAF; it will probably break under the weight.
ICE free since '18 / 100K+ 100% BEV miles since '14
LEAF '13 SL (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18, 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%)
Tesla S 75D (3/17, 49K mi)
Tesla X 100D (12/18, 30K mi)
8.9kW Solar PV and 2x Powerwall

User avatar
Stanton
Posts: 2366
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:03 am

Enough talk about theory: how about a real live 24->40 kWh battery swap/install! The donor pack came from a (local) salvaged 2020 Leaf; I installed Dala's CAN-bridge myself and Chris Murphy's Automotive did the pack swap. I'm probably going to write a blog about it for EAA, but here's a couple of pics to whet your appetite.
Image
You can see from the dash pic that the pack was in really good shape (good things come to those who wait).Image
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/OVMS
12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns/Wet Okole seat covers/Tor's heater mod/Dala's CAN-bridge
Lizard Pack (Rev E) installed @51 months/41k miles
40 kWh Pack (Gen2) installed @115 months/85k miles

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2759
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:00 am

Awesome

Congrats
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

goldbrick
Posts: 1289
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:07 pm

So this went into your 2011 Leaf?

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6350
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:22 pm

Stanton wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:03 am
Enough talk about theory: how about a real live 24->40 kWh battery swap/install!
Wonderful !

Let us know where to read details. Please include a Leafspy cell voltage histogram, and of course installation details and costs.
I really like the 40 kWh pack size for extended-local driving.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6350
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:33 pm

Stanton wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:14 pm
The whole car cost me $12k (plus fees). So I paid roughly $300 per kWh.
Thanks for the information.

I'm thinking ...
Another ~ $600 for the Can-bridge
Another ~ $400 if Can-bridge installation is not DIY
Another ~ $1000 to install the pack

So about $14k for a lightly used 40 kWh pack upgrade without warranty into a 10 year old car.
I'm not going that route, but I respect your desire to keep the car on the road.

Happy driving !
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
Stanton
Posts: 2366
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:42 pm

goldbrick wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:07 pm
So this went into your 2011 Leaf?
Yes. Love this car (if that wasn't already obvious). :D
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/OVMS
12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns/Wet Okole seat covers/Tor's heater mod/Dala's CAN-bridge
Lizard Pack (Rev E) installed @51 months/41k miles
40 kWh Pack (Gen2) installed @115 months/85k miles

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 663
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:14 pm

Stanton wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:42 pm

Yes. Love this car (if that wasn't already obvious). :D
I have the same feeling about my 2012 red Leaf with upgrade wheels - love it. The only problem is it will not make it to my rural property on one charge (~100 miles one way). Still trying to decide how to resolve this so I don't have to take my (work) Suburban. every time. Truly wish there was an option of upgrade here in Houston. How much to you think this entire swap will cost you assuming you will part out the 2020??

BTW, my Leaf has 50+ amp-hours after almost 4 1/2 years on the "lizard" battery - with 40 psi tires at 4.2 miles/kWH mixed driving, it will go over 60 miles! I'd guess the battery might be worth something also.
I'm not into range anxiety much as I know the car (battery) quite well.
2012 Leaf SL
2021 Leaf SV Plus

alozzy
Posts: 1964
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:51 pm

Marktm wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:14 pm
Stanton wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:42 pm

Yes. Love this car (if that wasn't already obvious). :D
Truly wish there was an option of upgrade here in Houston....
This place looks promising:

https://www.houstonwestsideautomotive.c ... ybrid.html
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

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