jimmol
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 16 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 318723

Re: Leaf wheel questions

Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:54 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:31 pm
How much do the rims weight?
13.7 pounds

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2765
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Leaf wheel questions

Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:07 am

That's awesome; 2 lbs lighter than my EV01s.
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

denwood
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:14 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 314149
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada

Re: Leaf wheel questions

Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:35 am

jimmol wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:11 pm
...

On the tire rack site, all the rims recommend 205/55-16. Would there be any problem going to a 205/60-16?

....
Definitely go with the 205/60 R16". I have 205/55 R16" winters and they are noticeably smaller than the 215/50 R17" OEM rims/summer tires on my 2018 LEAF SL. The calcs below show a .7" difference which is pretty consistent with a side to side actual comparison of the tires.

OD on the 215/50 R17 is 25.46"
OD on the 205/55 R16 is 24.88"
OD on the 205/60 R16 is 25.69" (closer match to OEM)

The leaf is already low, so particularly in winter, I'd rather have a bit more height than less.

PrairieLEAF
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 04 Feb 2019
Location: Weld County, Colorado

Re: Leaf wheel questions

Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:51 am

I suppose angular momentum may be the factor that makes heavier, larger diameter wheels require more energy to accelerate and offer more regeneration when slowing. Think of the wheels as flywheels. The heavier and larger diameter they are, the more rotational energy they store (and the more difficult it is to accelerate and decelerate them).

Once heavy flywheels are spinning, it doesn't take much to keep them spinning (highway cruising), and their rotational energy can help balance small climbs and descents.

Okay, I'm up for some brain melting--hope I'm doing this right...

Using a rotational kinetic energy (easier to calculate) online calculator and 785 rpm for about 60 mph:

16" 13.7 lb wheel: 325 J x 4 = 1300 J

17" 24.7 lb wheel: 662 J x 4 = 2648 J

That's more difference than I expected!

The rest of the car, though, (3300 lbs) has about 538,500 J of kinetic energy at 60 mph, so the effect of the wheel mass is still pretty limited.
2016 LEAF S-30 w/QC "Lexie"

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2765
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Leaf wheel questions

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:55 am

So how much loss do you think there is in the starting and stopping cycle? Also, with rolling resistance, how much loss (delta between wheels) do you think that creates?
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

PrairieLEAF
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 04 Feb 2019
Location: Weld County, Colorado

Re: Leaf wheel questions

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:51 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:55 am
So how much loss do you think there is in the starting and stopping cycle? Also, with rolling resistance, how much loss (delta between wheels) do you think that creates?
Good questions! :D

I don't know, but for typical use (not racing or competing in efficiency competitions), I don't think these types of differences in wheel/tire weight and diameter are enough to go out of one's way over.

I suspect that lighter weight always has efficiency benefits (although possibly slight), even if it means less momentum.

Now, this type of application is a different story:

Image
2016 LEAF S-30 w/QC "Lexie"

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2765
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Leaf wheel questions

Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:55 pm

Ok, just did a run between Skokie and Pontiac IL today, 219 miles round trip. As an aside up front, if passing Pontiac IL, stop to Charge. There is a special non affiliated 4 station DC charging stop. The place "Wallys" is road trip stop heaven including a beef jerky counter, 12 slurpee flavors, and dozens of soda tap options. Retail, etc... insane. This is a vision of the future for evs.

The highway around the city bypass is 60 mph, and the route down progressively moves to 70 mph for reference. Head winds on the way down. Tail winds back. 80-84 F ambient.

3.9 miles per kWh down (108 miles) and an amazing 5.1 back (111 miles).

Here is a graph of the battery temps for the 4 hours. The DC charge added about 12F to the battery. Due to tail wind and low consumption, temp actually reduced a tiny bit on way home (maybe 1-2 degrees).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17_YHYs ... p=drivesdk

I feel like the rims help, especially when above 70mph.
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

johnlocke
Posts: 686
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Leaf wheel questions

Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:01 am

PrairieLEAF wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:51 am
I suppose angular momentum may be the factor that makes heavier, larger diameter wheels require more energy to accelerate and offer more regeneration when slowing. Think of the wheels as flywheels. The heavier and larger diameter they are, the more rotational energy they store (and the more difficult it is to accelerate and decelerate them).

Once heavy flywheels are spinning, it doesn't take much to keep them spinning (highway cruising), and their rotational energy can help balance small climbs and descents.

Okay, I'm up for some brain melting--hope I'm doing this right...

Using a rotational kinetic energy (easier to calculate) online calculator and 785 rpm for about 60 mph:

16" 13.7 lb wheel: 325 J x 4 = 1300 J

17" 24.7 lb wheel: 662 J x 4 = 2648 J

That's more difference than I expected!

The rest of the car, though, (3300 lbs) has about 538,500 J of kinetic energy at 60 mph, so the effect of the wheel mass is still pretty limited.
Rotational mass is only important for acceleration and deceleration, However sprung mass affects damping and handling so the lighter rims will improve the ride quality and handling.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

jimmol
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 16 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 318723

Re: Leaf wheel questions

Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:36 pm

Thanks to all of you who contributed to this thread.

I have ordered the Enkei Racing RPF1 16 x 6 wheels and ECOPIA EP422 PLUS tires 205/60-16.

I hope to have them installed by April 20 and will report back later.

If I forget, just leave and post and it will remind me.

Thanks again.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2765
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Leaf wheel questions

Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:48 pm

Please post pics when mounted.
2019 S Plus (93.86% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (93.35% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

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