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New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:09 pm
by derbartman
I just bought a 2017 with 30kwh battery and 15,000 miles on odometer. It still shows 12 dots/bars of battery health.

We tried it out on the desired commmute today and were disapointed by the result andd Im wondering if this is pointing to a real issue or if this is just life with an EV..

So the commute was 40 miles total. We had charged up to 100% over night It was cold at night (a little below freezing outside) but the car was in unheated garage. We left early enough that it was still cold outside, but I think above freezing but close to it.
We drove to the work location and back and stopped at two places on the way back. It was a mix of freeway and city, but much of it ~45mph and some on the highway up to 75. After arriving hoe the battery charge was listed as 25%.

It feels like when we started it was saying 111 mile range, but we ended up spending 75% on 40 which equates to 53 mile range which is ~ 1/2.

We only used seat and steering wheel heaters except a very short stint of defrost on a side window (1 min)

It further turns out that one of the four tires was inflated to 30psi where as the rest were/are 35 or 36.

So I understand derating for the high speed and some derating for cold - but it seems like only getting 55 miles out of our 12 dot 30 kwh battery when driving nice besides the described use is excessive. We had thought that the 30kwh would do the 40 mile commute and also be able to do 80/20 charging, but it would seem now there isnt much cushion even with 12 dots..

Another odd thing is the dealer said the 12v battery had died before we were able to test drive. I see some posts about some upgraded software which is needed and another post about possibly linking dead 12v battery to issues too.

I am really disappointed if this is reality of a 30kwh battery, Id rather there was a bad cell or battery issue I could resolve and get the car to do what we really hoped.

I see there is some leafspy software I should be able to use to get some battery data - Ill try to post that once I can.

So bottom line is - with 12 dots should I be thinking something is wrong with the battery if only getting 55 miles or should I be thinking thats life in coldish/low tire /high speed commute?

One other aspect is the ccar seems to still be reporting 4 miles per kwh -- but that doesnt make any sense to me based on a 30kwh battery and the 25% left - its almost as if the car thinks the battery is a 20 kwh battery or something...

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:05 pm
by LeftieBiker
Which model Leaf is this? The S has no heat pump, so range suffers a lot in milder Winter weather compared with the heat pump-equipped SV and SL.

The car may be the victim of a Battery Management System (BMS) reset. I'll link to my used Leaf buying topic, ad you can read up on that - especially the section on the 30kwh Leaf.


Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:54 pm
by derbartman
Sorry - I should have included that for sure - this is an SV

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:16 pm
by LeftieBiker
Well, the low tire pressure can be blamed for maybe up to 5 miles of range lost. The temp being below freezing reduces the advantage of the heat pump, which loses most of that advantage at about 25F, and virtually all of it at 15F. You can also assume that the 12th bar, worth 15% of capacity, is soon to drop. (You really need LeafSpy Pro and a Bluetooth OBDII port reader like the one in my signature to read capacity accurately - although LeafSpy is also fooled by a BMS reset.) So assuming 85% of capacity left, and a 10-15 mile range disadvantage for the above reasons, you should have had about a 75-80 miles range with a full charge. If the range really was 53, then we are likely looking at a BMS reset, unless the test drive was more vigorous than you imply. Actually, any distance driven at 75MPH will produce a fairly large range hit...

The dealer mentioning the 12 volt battery having died may or may not be significant. That doesn't generally cause a BMS reset, but I wonder if a stone-dead 12 volt battery for a few days might have that effect, or if the dealer reset the BMS and is trying to cover their tracks. You'd really need to do a better range test on the car - tires to 40psi, no faster than 60-65MPH, temps no colder than freezing, to get a better handle on the issue. Start with a full charge, drive 10 or 20 miles normally, then note the drop of state of charge on the dash display. Or drive until you lose 10% of charge, and multiply the number of miles that you traveled by 10 for a rough range estimate.

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:06 pm
by PrairieLEAF
You might also reset the mi/kWh readout and let it start over if you haven't already--that could be a pretty old average.

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:22 am
by Driver8
Leftie is a wealth of info. I agree with him to test again and use LeafSpy.

I bought a 2017 S in Sept and also live in a relatively colder climate (New England). Our car had 26K and 12 bars (about 89% SOH on LeafSpy) when we bought it. We've been pleasantly surprised how well the range has done in the colder temps here so far (we also keep the car in an unheated garage). We instantly lose 10-20 miles of range when we turn on the heater, but overall the range hasn't dropped THAT much from the fall (and I do some highway driving up to 70mph).
So yes, the range you got on this trip looks pretty off, based on the experience with my car.
More trips (and LeafSpy) would certainly help to understand the situation better.

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:36 am
by alozzy
I'm guessing the dealer did the BMS update for the known issue with the 30 kWh pack, which also conveniently resets the BMS "state of health" metric. I wonder if Nissan corporate would have a record of that and whether it had already been done before, as that would provide evidence of fraud.

If the BMS was reset, you should know the real state of the pack in a few weeks. Until then, LeafSpy may give you fake readings.

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:20 pm
by derbartman
So this morning I started to interact with the dealer again (off on Sunday) and also I checked the 12v battery which I had charged with a separate 12v charger. After trying to pre-heat the cabin while the Lion was on charger I discovered I got no noticeable heat out - so Im thinking - well another broken thing - but then before the wife left to do a couple close errands I put my 12v charger back on which is 'smart' and does a battery assessment - it came up saying the battery was 30% and started to charge - since it was 100% 12 hours prior to this - I know strongly suspect the 12v battery is trash and I hope that what led to extra bad range was the Lion trying to charge a black hole of a 12v battery the whole trip...

The dealer has already agreed to do the deep battery check which is supposed to be done annually - what strikes me as odd is they apparently have had this car since Sept and apparently never did the battery check..
They agreed to check the 12 v and replace if needed.
I asked about them doing the BMS reset - no reply yet
I asked about the BMS SW update - they say it apparently was done ~ 1 year ago when the last real battery deep check was done.
They agreed to do the deep battery check service at no charge..
They also agreed to actually do the multi point inspection on the car which I had assumed they did when they brought it in and was awaiting the copy of that report...

I could understand the fraud incentive of reset BMS to mask a lower bar - if mine drops 1 bar soon I wont have much leg to stand on, but if it were to drop 2 that might be something - on the other hand 15k and 2 bar drop would seem pretty high and would seem to put me on track to a warranty replacement if I understand that right..

That being said the short drive my wife did today seemed to track pretty close to 1:1 mile/% its almost like the battery is good for the first 20 % and then isn't as good - IDK how the car assesses the %.

Maybe its all about this 12v battery and our 75 mph stint - fingers crossed..

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:32 pm
by LeftieBiker
Don't get your hopes up that the 12 volt battery is behind the poor range on the test drive. It isn't likely...

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:41 am
by Driver8
I also don't think the 75mph driving is a huge factor. likely knocks down a little bit of range but not the majority.