goldbrick
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:28 pm

You could try Valley Nissan in Longmont or Tynan's in Ft. Collins. I've never dealt with either one of them but they should be close. I got my Leaf at Tynan's in Aurora and their 'Leaf specialist' salesman was completely clueless but I'm not sure about the rest of the dealership and that was several years ago. They do seem to sell quite a few Leafs though. I've heard better things about the Ft. Collins outfit but have never been there.

derbartman
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:41 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jan 2021
Leaf Number: 304749

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:32 pm

while looking for more info on the CVLI I did find a post on a different board same car within last year in England with nearly identical data - same one cell really low on leafspy histogram. Same story from dealer about no problem - regular issues.. - they apparently called Nissan who got the cvli test approved or such and then the car was sent for module change after the result of the cvli - but they complained about the distinct lack of communication about the whole thing.
It was telling just how similar their drive miles to charge behavior was to mine how its fine for the first 20 miles then droops fast - with low remaining charge after 55 miles. They called out a delta in the SoC between the car and leafspy with leafspy giving more value to all the remaining high cells and the car paying attention to the low one I guess..

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6397
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:45 pm

There may also be more than one LEAF mechanic at a dealership
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 12129
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:03 pm

derbartman wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:05 pm
Right - and it sounds like even if I pay the $85 for their test and the see the same result - they cant/wont do anything either - its true I can push / escalate. I can talk to the manager and then the owner and then call Nissan no gas line and discuss and escalate as per their docs. If I were to choose the escalate path it sure seems like I would be way better off having a Nissan dealer test showing the bad cell than just leafspy. I fear paying $85 only to have the dealer say it all came back fine.. I also fear the whole escalation path - also lots of BS and frustration..

Its very odd though to think that they don't accept the data that their own car is outputting..
There's no way in hell Nissan corporate would approve a warranty claim based upon Leaf Spy output only. They didn't write the tool and don't know how accurate or inaccurate its rendering to the user of output its. From the minimal amount of gathered from talking to Turbo3 years ago about this, sounds like there's a ton of traffic on the CAN buses. It's not like he knows what all of it means and meaning of the values.

At least he was able to do some reverse engineering and real time confirmation to get the voltages right: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=17470.

You need to find the 30 kWh version of https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16070 since the voltages would probably be different than a 24 kWh pack.

You can maybe just buy a subscription (https://www.nissan-techinfo.com/deptsubs.aspx) to print out or download the PDFs of the service manual (https://www.nissan-techinfo.com/find.aspx?dept_id=10) for the '17 for this section. You need to get the dealer to run that procedure. It will fail given how bad the imbalance is. Or, maybe you can get them to bring up those pages since they definitely have the whole manual or subscription to it.

Nissan dealer service depts would use Consult III Plus (https://www.nissan-techinfo.com/dept.aspx?dept_id=25) on all their vehicles.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 17113
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:21 pm

It was telling just how similar their drive miles to charge behavior was to mine how its fine for the first 20 miles then droops fast - with low remaining charge after 55 miles. They called out a delta in the SoC between the car and leafspy with leafspy giving more value to all the remaining high cells and the car paying attention to the low one I guess..
The Battery Management System (BMS) which Nissan calls the Lithium Battery Controller or something like that, tries to protect the battery pack from failure. It does this by limiting power and then shutting the pack down to prevent the weakest cell(s) from damage. This is how pretty much all BMS systems work: keep the weakest cells from dying and ruining the pack.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:28 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:48 pm
alozzy wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:06 pm
Given the low cell voltage on #11 in the pack, as reported by LeafSpy, I would go back to the dealer with a print out of that screenshot and insist that they get an expert LEAF tech involved.

If they don't give you satisfaction, then I would go to Nissan directly. This is clearly a defective cell and must be covered by warranty - either by replacing the defective cell or giving you a replacement pack.
The problem is that they don't consider LeafSpy to be acceptable evidence of anything.
I understand that, but it at least gives the OP a leg to stand on, to push for further testing.

I can't imagine having any chance of success with getting a warranty claim going without LeafSpy evidence, if the dealer thinks there's no problem and is trying to get rid of you. Leafspy is the only evidence based tool we have as owners. I'm by no means suggesting it's definitive, but how else would you argue with a reluctant dealership that the pack is unhealthy?
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6397
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:49 pm

alozzy wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:28 pm
but how else would you argue with a reluctant dealership that the pack is unhealthy?
1. You push the car to turtle so it sets DTCs
Or
2. You take a Nissan tech for a drive at a low battery SoC and let him/her watch the SoC plummet and the car go into turtle
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

alozzy
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:35 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:49 pm
alozzy wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:28 pm
but how else would you argue with a reluctant dealership that the pack is unhealthy?
1. You push the car to turtle so it sets DTCs
Or
2. You take a Nissan tech for a drive at a low battery SoC and let him/her watch the SoC plummet and the car go into turtle
The former for sure, which was already discussed in this thread. Hopefully the OP is able to make that happen.

The latter still requires a Nissan dealership willing to investigate further. I still think LeafSpy helps to start those conversations, to get to a point to where they are willing to hop in the car.

I suspect that the OP is going to have to be patient and wait for a turtle mode event, to trigger a DTC that Nissan will pay attention to. Hopefully driving aggressively, with a low SOC, makes that happen sooner rather than later...
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 17113
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:46 pm

If he wants to see Turtle without risking bricking the car, any high battery load at low SOC should cause a DTC event. I suggest driving under full power up a substantial hill - carefully. IIRC, these kinds of events cause a warning message but don't strand the car, once the extra load is removed...
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

derbartman
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:41 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jan 2021
Leaf Number: 304749

Re: New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:02 pm

well I sure don't want to brick the car.. I guess I hope you mean being stranded as opposed to damaging the car. I don't feel confident about inducing turtle mode - but I also don't really understand why causing it to go into turtle is likely to trigger these error codes.

Im going to be digging into the new leafspy data I got from today, but one thing was very interesting in that leafspy was reporting quite a bit higher SoC than the car. e.g. when I got very low and the car was reporting 7% leafspy was reporting 37%. Right after that the car reported -- and I drove home - with no turtle..

At that point leafspy reported the weak cell as 3.426 and high of 3.657 231 mv

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