Mobile operators to shut down 3G networks in 2022

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Stanton

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It's deja-vu all over again: we will have the same problem we did with CarWings/EV Connect vis-a-vis 3G we did with 2G. A couple of things come to mind:
1) Does anyone know if the chip set on the (replacement/upgrade) TCU modems supports LTE (4G) as well as 3G?
2) Has anyone spoken to Nissan about the prospects of another modem upgrade cycle?

I didn't anticipate that a 3G network shut-down would so closely follow the 2G network shut-down, but spectrum is scarce and 5G is on the way. At least we've been through this once before (although it wasn't pretty), but I know I don't want to lose telematics capability in my Leaf. A key to the magnitude of the problem will be knowing whether the current 3G chip set also supports LTE, which allows for the possibility of a firmware as opposed to a hardware update.
 
jlv said:
Stanton said:
1) Does anyone know if the chip set on the (replacement/upgrade) TCU modems supports LTE (4G) as well as 3G?
Almost certainly not.

No offense...but that doesn't sound very definitive.
If you can identify the chip set (manufacturer/number), then I would believe you. The fact is, I am not aware of any (newer) 3G chip sets that don't support LTE...but that doesn't mean Nissan used one of those.
 
https://www.nissanusa.com/connect/support-faqs.html says re: 4G
"Will the new TCU hardware work with the 4G network?
No. The new TCU hardware will be designed to connect to the current AT&T 3G cellular network." and

"Why is Nissan using 3G technology rather than 4G?
Nissan has studied how to integrate newer technology into your vehicle and developed solutions aimed at delivering a hardware update option with the least inconvenience to customers. The new TCU hardware will be designed to connect to AT&T's 3G cellular network. Nissan does not control availability of any cellular network and cellular network may not be available in all areas and/or available at all times."

Who knows if their chipset actually doesn't support it 4G or LTE or it's buggy or if they just aren't using the capability right now?

https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1324171/ says "One change we’re making is phasing out our 3G network by February 2022. Once we do, 3G devices and 4G wireless devices that don’t support HD Voice will no longer work on our network."
 
cwerdna said:
https://www.nissanusa.com/connect/support-faqs.html says re: 4G
"Will the new TCU hardware work with the 4G network?
No. The new TCU hardware will be designed to connect to the current AT&T 3G cellular network." and

Well, that sucks; thanks for digging up the Nissan FAQ. I knew about the AT&T stuff...which is really what led me to create this thread.
Guess we will have to do the "TCU upgrade dance" again...and sooner than I thought.
 
Stanton said:
cwerdna said:
https://www.nissanusa.com/connect/support-faqs.html says re: 4G
"Will the new TCU hardware work with the 4G network?
No. The new TCU hardware will be designed to connect to the current AT&T 3G cellular network." and

Well, that sucks; thanks for digging up the Nissan FAQ. I knew about the AT&T stuff...which is really what led me to create this thread.
Guess we will have to do the "TCU upgrade dance" again...and sooner than I thought.

New owner of a 2013 so what does this dance involve? What will be affected if I do nothing? Would I just be able to tether to my phone? thanks
 
If you use the app to preheat your car, check on charging or look at statistics that would no longer work.

What I don't know and should probably start looking into is if all LEAFs including the 2019 and 2020 only connect to 3g. Not sure how many of us will have to do the upgrade dance.
 
Maybe I'm cynical, but I highly doubt that Nissan will offer TCU upgrades again for $200 for older model years. It wouldn't surprise me if they offered TCU upgrades on 2018 MY and newer only.
 
alozzy said:
Maybe I'm cynical, but I highly doubt that Nissan will offer TCU upgrades again for $200 for older model years. It wouldn't surprise me if they offered TCU upgrades on 2018 MY and newer only.
That's why we need to get the facts (however/whoever may have them).
Telematics is a big part of this car (and really all EVs), and the only way to maintain the functionality is for Nissan to provide a 4G upgrade path for the TCU.
 
Stanton said:
alozzy said:
Maybe I'm cynical, but I highly doubt that Nissan will offer TCU upgrades again for $200 for older model years. It wouldn't surprise me if they offered TCU upgrades on 2018 MY and newer only.
That's why we need to get the facts (however/whoever may have them).
Telematics is a big part of this car (and really all EVs), and the only way to maintain the functionality is for Nissan to provide a 4G upgrade path for the TCU.

I'm probably in the minority, but I just don't care about it anymore. I tried getting the $200 co-pay TCU upgrade, on my US LEAF in Canada, and Nissan blocked that.

I found CarWings/NissanConnect to be buggy and more trouble than it's worth anyways.
 
I find it very useful for preheating, and for precooling in really Hot weather. I may not be driving a Leaf with it after this Summer, but we will have the 2020, and I'll be really POd if that loses the feature.
 
The 2020 Nissan Connect manual has some information on page 5-6 that seems to imply the car is capable of 4G & 3G. It also says in no uncertain terms that the owner is responsible for any cost if an upgrade is required. It doesn't mention if Nissan will/won't offer an upgrade.

https://imgur.com/a/B5xXDa6

Others may want to check their manuals to compare.

This information being in the Nissan Connect, rather than the Leaf, manual is interesting. It means this issue is wider reaching than just the Leaf since the systems are shared among many cars. I'm not sure how far back that's the case, but this could impact a lot of cars if Nissan didn't add 4G until recently.
 
I have some skin in this topic as well, but I haven't been able to find any definitive answers about which my EV is using. Luckily the industry that I work in, I have special radio equipment to just site survey my vehicle in a frequency scan to see which protocols it appears to be using. I'll report back what I find here, but keep in mind, I only have my own 2020 to test with, so unless someone has a 2019, 2018, etc. nearby that I can borrow and probe, my findings might be limited...

I do have some reference to go by in my area, should be easy to turn my vehicle climate control on and off with the spectrum scan antenna pointed right at my car to find out.

3G : 850 MHz Cellular, 1900 MHz PCS
4G : 700 MHz Lower B/C, 1700/ 2100 MHz AWS, 2300 MHz WCS
 
G3NG4R said:
The 2020 Nissan Connect manual has some information on page 5-6 that seems to imply the car is capable of 4G & 3G. It also says in no uncertain terms that the owner is responsible for any cost if an upgrade is required. It doesn't mention if Nissan will/won't offer an upgrade.

https://imgur.com/a/B5xXDa6

Others may want to check their manuals to compare.

This information being in the Nissan Connect, rather than the Leaf, manual is interesting. It means this issue is wider reaching than just the Leaf since the systems are shared among many cars. I'm not sure how far back that's the case, but this could impact a lot of cars if Nissan didn't add 4G until recently.

My 2019 manual says the same.
 
I had some time to kill this morning, so I did two test on mine.

First test, RF Spectrum Analyzer, pointing a huge antenna at my vehicle with it running, then doing some simple stuff like checking battery charge, turn on climate control, turning it off, etc. Everything was working in the 4G frequency, so I would say it must support it and was using it, but... it is possible for 3G to re-use some of the 4G frequency if the cellular operator wants to do it that way. Highly improbable that AT&T was doing that in my area, but I wanted to make certain. So I found a 3G dead zone that has 4G service, brought along equipment (and even a 3G only phone for giggles), drove out to the dead zone (happen to be a church parking lot close by, so it was easy to park and test with). Verified that 3G service did not work where I was, no signal, no coverage, even the 3G only phone showed no service just in case of frequency re-use. First thing I noticed, Leaf still showed a connection to the network on the dash (good sign), then did the same test of checking battery charge, playing with climate control, etc. Everything was still working fine, so at least as far as the 2020 models, they have a 4G radio in them. I can say that with certainly without tearing up the EV and checking the FCC codes on the electronics. :lol:

If all of the Gen 2 Leaf have the same radio chip-set, then I would say the Gen 1 Leaf are the ones that will be disconnected once they shutdown the 3G side. :(
 
knightmb said:
If all of the Gen 2 Leaf have the same radio chip-set, then I would say the Gen 1 Leaf are the ones that will be disconnected once they shutdown the 3G side. :(
And that's the rub: I am looking for some definitive info from Nissan on when/how they are going to upgrade the Gen1 TCU (assume a new modem daughter board--lust like the first time). I would even pay for a third party solution (if they are able to obtain the board specs), but I'm not sure if the biz case would work. At least Nissan can fund it out of the maintenance (and obligation) for the overall vehicle.
 
knightmb said:
I had some time to kill this morning, so I did two test on mine.

First test, RF Spectrum Analyzer, pointing a huge antenna at my vehicle with it running, then doing some simple stuff like checking battery charge, turn on climate control, turning it off, etc. Everything was working in the 4G frequency, so I would say it must support it and was using it, but... it is possible for 3G to re-use some of the 4G frequency if the cellular operator wants to do it that way. Highly improbable that AT&T was doing that in my area, but I wanted to make certain. So I found a 3G dead zone that has 4G service, brought along equipment (and even a 3G only phone for giggles), drove out to the dead zone (happen to be a church parking lot close by, so it was easy to park and test with). Verified that 3G service did not work where I was, no signal, no coverage, even the 3G only phone showed no service just in case of frequency re-use. First thing I noticed, Leaf still showed a connection to the network on the dash (good sign), then did the same test of checking battery charge, playing with climate control, etc. Everything was still working fine, so at least as far as the 2020 models, they have a 4G radio in them. I can say that with certainly without tearing up the EV and checking the FCC codes on the electronics. :lol:

If all of the Gen 2 Leaf have the same radio chip-set, then I would say the Gen 1 Leaf are the ones that will be disconnected once they shutdown the 3G side. :(

Thanks. I just bought a new 2020 and was wondering about that. I have been unsuccessful in determining what radio I have. I still haven't found anything 100% definitive. The Connect manual suggests 4G and your experiment reinforces that notion but no-one can say with absolute certainty.

I had a 2014 Infiniti Q50 hybrid before this. It came with 2G which was obsolete pretty quickly. They offered an upgrade to 3G for about $350.00 which included a year of premium service. I took a pass because why do that for something that will be obsolete again soon. Now Q50 owners will be left holding the bag as there are no plans for a 4G upgrade. At least not yet.
 
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