stjohnh
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Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 409675
Location: Palo Alto, CA

2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:00 am

There have been several reports of nearly new 2013 Leafs with battery capacity readings in the 60-62 AHr range, and several with 66-67 range. A new Leaf ordinarily should have a capacity of 66 AHr. I know there are several battery threads, but none that specifically address this question. I have asked in other sections some of the battery experts and no one seems to have an explanation.

I would like people with 2013 Leafs to report their capacity (AHr) and if they actually have range loss. Other useful info is SOC at LBW. Anything else useful, as well.

I have 2 Leafs, a 2013 S and 2013 SV, both with capacity readings of 60.5-60.9. Both about 2 mo old (manufactured May 2013), both with about 1400 miles. Both run about 65 miles from 100% to LBW at 4mi/Kwh. Both show 18% SOC on the Leaf dash meter at LBW.

My range seems a bit low for a new Leaf, but not really as low as would be expected for a 10% capacity loss (66 AHr to 60 AHr). Additionally, real degradation is usually associated with a higher SOC at LBW (I would expect SOC to read in the 20-22% range at LBW for real degradation).

Anyway, this data is confusing and concerning, especially for those with a new Leaf and wondering if they got a lemon.

If you want to check your capacity in AHr, you have several options, if you already have an android phone or tablet, the following is the least expensive. (Other options are the WattsLeft meter, LeafDD meter, and others).
You will need:
1. OBDII scanner $17 on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008U1 ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2. Android phone or tablet with Bluetooth, Wifi, and google play store capability (I use the Google Nexus 7 tablet, which is a wonderful general purpose tablet, about $200). Check the Leaf Battery App Manual wiki for more info http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... pplication" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. You can buy a phone for less than $50 to use, it does NOT need to be activated.
3. The Leaf Battery App. Link is in the wiki.

******May 2014 update*****
Battery is normal, still indicates capacity about 60-61. Handy way of estimating true range of these cars is in my post in this thread of May 14, 2014
Last edited by stjohnh on Wed May 14, 2014 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blessings,
Holland

2 LEAFS, bought 1 week apart. 2013 S for me, 2013 SV is wife's. Both manufactured May 2013. I lost first bar at 36,000. Wife still has all bars at 50,000.

IraqiInvaderGnr
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:49 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 404138
Location: Treynor, Iowa

Re: 2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:39 am

Ahr 67.36 Health 107.18%
2013 SL Silver Manufactured 02-13 Purchased 04-13
Top Gids 295 miles 7-25-13 6,700
AHr 62.73 Health 95.01% Gids 272 miles as of 9-8-14 28,287

:) Truck driver that dreams of a day when he's behind the wheel of a Electric 18 wheeler :)

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surfingslovak
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Re: 2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:06 pm

Referencing a previous thread ELROY has started. Hopefully, there will a plausible explanation for this.

POST YOUR BATTERY DEGRADATION RESULTS

stjohnh
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:27 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 409675
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: 2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:34 pm

surfingslovak wrote:Referencing a previous thread ELROY has started. Hopefully, there will a plausible explanation for this.

POST YOUR BATTERY DEGRADATION RESULTS
The battery degradation thread has some of this info, but is mostly about real degradation, mostly of 2011 and 2012 cars. It is not at all clear that the low capacity 2013s have any unusual degradation, they just seem to arrive with low capacity.
Blessings,
Holland

2 LEAFS, bought 1 week apart. 2013 S for me, 2013 SV is wife's. Both manufactured May 2013. I lost first bar at 36,000. Wife still has all bars at 50,000.

GregH
Posts: 860
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Delivery Date: 13 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 26967
Location: Irvine, CA

Re: 2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:18 pm

I've been in a new (1400miles) 2013 for 3 weeks now (and added about 1000 miles to the odo.. so 2400 now). When I got it the health was around 110%H and over the last 3 weeks/1000mi has drifted down to about 108%H.. Ah Capacity pegged at 67.3620Ah the whole time. Battery temps have been in the high 20s, low 30s Celsius. Curious to see at what health% the Ah Cap will drop below 67.3620 but I'm getting my 2012 back tonight so maybe IraqiInvaderGnr can let us know..
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
'12 SL black Leaf
'11 SL blue Leaf
RAV4-EV 2002-2005
Gen1 & Gen2 EV1 1997-2003
PV 2.4Kw, 10kWh lithium battery SCE TOU-DA

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surfingslovak
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Re: 2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:33 pm

stjohnh wrote:
surfingslovak wrote:Referencing a previous thread ELROY has started. Hopefully, there will a plausible explanation for this.

POST YOUR BATTERY DEGRADATION RESULTS
The battery degradation thread has some of this info, but is mostly about real degradation, mostly of 2011 and 2012 cars. It is not at all clear that the low capacity 2013s have any unusual degradation, they just seem to arrive with low capacity.
To be clear, I'm not playing thread police just suggesting that these two topics are related and wanted to make sure you were aware of the other one. The older thread has more people following it. You might want to cross-post there and define a bit better in the title of this thread what you would like to accomplish. If it's collecting Ah and SOH readouts from relatively new vehicles, then state that directly. I remember GregH, LEAFfan and Boomer collecting this type of data.

I responded to you in the ELM327 thread indicating that I don't believe this was an issue, but it's worth monitoring and investigating. What are the GID counts from both vehicles on a full charge? I don't recall seeing them posted anywhere. How do you know that your range is impacted aside from SOC readouts? Also, you might want to check the manufacturing date on both cars. It's on the B pillar, drivers side.

If you are genuinely concerned, have you reported the issue to your dealer and to Nissan? They can check your LEAFs with their instruments. It might be interesting to hear what they have to say about this. Best of luck to you.
Last edited by surfingslovak on Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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TickTock
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Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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Re: 2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:50 pm

Not mine, but a friend who just bought a 2013 Leaf over the weekend:
  • Hlth : 93.5%
    Ah : 60.85
    100%gids : 265
Dealer told him it had been sitting on the lot for over a month.

[Edit: changed SOH to Hlth since this doesn't appear to be battery capacity SOH but rather the health of something else. The real SOH is 92.7%]
Last edited by TickTock on Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stjohnh
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:27 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 409675
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: 2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:31 pm

surfingslovak wrote:
I responded to you in the ELM327 thread indicating that I don't believe this was an issue, but it's worth monitoring and investigating. What are the GID counts from both vehicles on a full charge? I don't recall seeing them posted anywhere. How do you know that your range is impacted aside from SOC readouts? Also, you might want to check the manufacturing date on both cars. It's on the B pillar, drivers side.

If you are genuinely concerned, have you reported the issue to your dealer and to Nissan? They can check your LEAFs with their instruments. It might be interesting to head what they have to say about this. Best of luck to you.
You have made several very helpful posts on this and related topics, and I thank you for your suggestions. I've cross posted on the other Degradation thread.

GIDs (real) at 100% charge are 262 on the 2013 S and 264 on the SV.
Both manufactured May 2013
Range was measured on a hiway drive, nearly flat, ambient temp about 75 F, Battery temp 83 F at end of range test to LBW. When I did the test I was using the older version of the Leaf Battery App that displayed simulated GIDs and reading at LBW was 72 simulated 'GIDs. I'm not sure how related that is to real GIDs and certainly suggests there are more KWh below LBW than is usual. I have yet to measure actual range from LBW to turtle.
Blessings,
Holland

2 LEAFS, bought 1 week apart. 2013 S for me, 2013 SV is wife's. Both manufactured May 2013. I lost first bar at 36,000. Wife still has all bars at 50,000.

GregH
Posts: 860
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Re: 2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:37 pm

TickTock wrote:Not mine, but a friend who just bought a 2013 Leaf over the weekend:
  • SOH : 93.5%
    Ah : 60.85
    100%gids : 265
Dealer told him it had been sitting on the lot for over a month.
:shock:
Imagine if all the gasoline cars sitting beside it for a month had their gas tanks shrink by a gallon... boggles the mind.
It would be interesting to hear how your friend's capacity changes after a few full->VLBW cycles. Can the car really make these capacity estimate adjustments based entirely on hours spent at elevated temperature without any cycling? Does it just wake up every few hours and say
if(temp>X) AhCap--;
?
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
'12 SL black Leaf
'11 SL blue Leaf
RAV4-EV 2002-2005
Gen1 & Gen2 EV1 1997-2003
PV 2.4Kw, 10kWh lithium battery SCE TOU-DA

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TickTock
Posts: 1701
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:30 pm
Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
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Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Contact: Website

Re: 2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:04 pm

My friend is just as much a data junky as me. I've already hooked him up with a loaner gid-o-meter until he decides what he wants to buy/build so we will see where things go from here.
GregH wrote:
TickTock wrote:Not mine, but a friend who just bought a 2013 Leaf over the weekend:
  • SOH : 93.5%
    Ah : 60.85
    100%gids : 265
Dealer told him it had been sitting on the lot for over a month.
:shock:
Imagine if all the gasoline cars sitting beside it for a month had their gas tanks shrink by a gallon... boggles the mind.
It would be interesting to hear how your friend's capacity changes after a few full->VLBW cycles. Can the car really make these capacity estimate adjustments based entirely on hours spent at elevated temperature without any cycling? Does it just wake up every few hours and say
if(temp>X) AhCap--;
?

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