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Shaming of dealers, reps, etc. saying Leaf's range is 100 mi

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:04 pm
by cwerdna
How about we have some public shaming of dealers and or reps (e.g. at auto shows) that are telling potential buyers the range of the Leaf is "100 miles"?

I'd be fine if they say 100 miles is based on the LA4 cycle and that the cycle averages 19.59 mph, but to say it w/o qualification to ICEV owners/non-EV enthusiasts gets a big thumbs down from me.

I'm disappointed to hear from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 11#p301411" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, that it seems this is still going on.

Nobody at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; thought 100 miles is the right value to tell people for the '11 and '12. And, Tony's range tests on the '13 seem to show it has no more range than the '11 and '12.

Until the Leaf can do 100 miles on a charge at 70 mph w/both moderate AC and moderate heater usage, I think it's a very bad idea to tell ICEV owners its range is 100 miles.

Re: Shaming of dealers, reps, etc. saying Leaf's range is 10

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:44 am
by jelloslug
cwerdna wrote: Until the Leaf can do 100 miles on a charge at 70 mph w/both moderate AC and moderate heater usage, I think it's a very bad idea to tell ICEV owners its range is 100 miles.
If the MPG ratings on ICE cars were calculated that way maybe but they are not.

Re: Shaming of dealers, reps, etc. saying Leaf's range is 10

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:17 am
by apvbguy
it's not so much dealers making claims that aren't true, they are not too well informed and are presenting the numbers that they see on the stickers.
You are correct that until the cars can be driven the same exact way an ICE is driven they will not become mainstream.
I like most people need a car that can be dependable to go at least 125 miles at a decent speed, (freeway) and is affordable. The Tesla delivers on part of the equation now the technology needs to progress to a point where the average guy can afford the EV that goes beyond where today's LEAF is.

Re: Shaming of dealers, reps, etc. saying Leaf's range is 10

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:18 am
by TomT
But it is apples and oranges since the range on an ICE car is almost never an issue. It is always an issue on an EV.
jelloslug wrote:
cwerdna wrote:Until the Leaf can do 100 miles on a charge at 70 mph w/both moderate AC and moderate heater usage, I think it's a very bad idea to tell ICEV owners its range is 100 miles.
If the MPG ratings on ICE cars were calculated that way maybe but they are not.

Re: Shaming of dealers, reps, etc. saying Leaf's range is 10

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:19 am
by DaveEV
cwerdna wrote:Until the Leaf can do 100 miles on a 100% charge to LBW at 70 mph w/both moderate AC and moderate heater usage, I think it's a very bad idea to tell ICEV owners its range is 100 miles.
There, fixed that for ya. But I would probably accept/consider 65 mph and VLBW.

Re: Shaming of dealers, reps, etc. saying Leaf's range is 10

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:20 am
by mwalsh
drees wrote:There, fixed that for ya. But I would accept consider 65 mph and VLBW.
Yep that would be my threshold for acceptability too. Legal freeway speeds to VLBW. Though my preference would also be to add "in any driving conditions (weather, terrain, etc...), with a fully charged battery". The latter was what ill-fated Coda was aiming for, and I believe with their battery pack they were probably good for it.

Re: Shaming of dealers, reps, etc. saying Leaf's range is 10

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:12 am
by evnow
mwalsh wrote:Yep that would be my threshold for acceptability too. Legal freeway speeds to VLBW. Though my preference would also be to add "in any driving conditions (weather, terrain, etc...), with a fully charged battery".
Then we are looking at something like 150 mile EPA range (100%), right ?

Re: Shaming of dealers, reps, etc. saying Leaf's range is 10

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:48 am
by mwalsh
evnow wrote:Then we are looking at something like 150 mile EPA range (100%), right ?
Probably. But that's only a wish-list thought. I don't expect it. ;)

Re: Shaming of dealers, reps, etc. saying Leaf's range is 10

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:12 pm
by cwerdna
mwalsh wrote:
drees wrote:There, fixed that for ya. But I would accept consider 65 mph and VLBW.
Yep that would be my threshold for acceptability too. Legal freeway speeds to VLBW. Though my preference would also be to add "in any driving conditions (weather, terrain, etc...), with a fully charged battery". The latter was what ill-fated Coda was aiming for, and I believe with their battery pack they were probably good for it.
FWIW, even though the speed highway speed limits on the highways near where I live are 65 mph, I find myself going ~68 to 72 in my Prius. A few weeks ago on a Saturday morning, for some reason, Nor Cal felt like LA. :o I suddenly found myself being tailgated going 78 mph (in a 65) :roll: by a Yaris on either highway 85 or 17 north in the fast lane. Once I was finally able move over, one of the speed demons in a Ferrari w/no plates blew by me.

As for legal, depends on where. The limit is 70 mph on much of I-5. Nobody in a car goes just 70 mph there. Texas has some 75 mph, 80 and even 85 mph speed limit highways: http://abcnews.go.com/US/speeding-texas ... d=17549839" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
TomT wrote:But it is apples and oranges since the range on an ICE car is almost never an issue. It is always an issue on an EV.
jelloslug wrote:
cwerdna wrote:Until the Leaf can do 100 miles on a charge at 70 mph w/both moderate AC and moderate heater usage, I think it's a very bad idea to tell ICEV owners its range is 100 miles.
If the MPG ratings on ICE cars were calculated that way maybe but they are not.
Agree w/TomT.

For more info on the EPA tests as it applies to ICEVs, see http://priuschat.com/threads/car-and-dr ... tes.67235/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The average speed on the highway and high speed test cycles is only 48.3 or 48.4 mph but the tests are run on a dyno and there's some fudging downward. FWIW, when Consumer Reports does their mileage tests, they run at a steady 65 mph on the highway portion and almost every single car on that test exceeds the EPA highway value.

Re: Shaming of dealers, reps, etc. saying Leaf's range is 10

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:17 pm
by cwerdna
apvbguy wrote:it's not so much dealers making claims that aren't true, they are not too well informed and are presenting the numbers that they see on the stickers.
I don't think any of the stickers state the range of the Leaf is 100 miles.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11574" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; shows a 75 mile range. Even if they were to use that, they should mention some caveats.