Publius
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Location: Rochester, NY

Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:34 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
NYLEAF wrote:The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver.
Do you use the heater? If so, that explains the difference.

Tony; you are wrong. I see a 1+ mile per kwh difference from Winter to Summer based on temperature alone. its rare but we get dry clear days in Winter here and I dont struggle to get 4 miles per kwh in Winter but only because I drive 55

but in Summer I am 4.7-5.2 miles per kwh driving 60 mph with A/C and not once or twice but SEVERAL times.

so temperature does matter
I haven't had my car long and haven't collected reliable data (just using what my car tells me), but my experience reflects a difference in economy based on the temperature, especially when the temperature is below freezing. That's why I made the original post about cold climates. That being said, I will defer to Tony because he knows a lot more about the car than I do. Maybe other factors (wind, etc.) are accounting for the difference, and like I said before, it's not like I've done a scientific study.
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ERG4ALL
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:03 pm

Yesterday we just completed a trip of 68.4 miles and were into the second to the last bar of charge. The GOM showed 22 miles left (which is a joke) so I figure we probably could have gone 80 miles before being in trouble. Our LEAF is a 2011 with over 22,000 miles on it. A 2013 with the extra little added range should make it possible however, if you are going to be driving 65 mph with some hills, make sure you have the dealership show you how the GPS system works and where you can get a charge. You can put in your destination (i.e. home) and then let the system show you the nearby charging stations along your route. I've found that some are Blink units that require a subscription and a card to activate them. The best bet for a free charge is at participating Nissan dealers. I've used a couple of them with very good results.

In our case we were using surface streets all the way and were showing as high as 6.0 miles per kWh and finished the trip in the high 5's. I think that's a joke as well because the LEAF supposedly limits full charge and full discharge of the battery. Thus, if we are allowed to use somewhere around 21 kWh out of 24, then we should have been able to go well over 100 miles which is dreaming. The point is for a new owner that these gauges are not absolute but need to be used as a relative indicator. I use the number of bars left (I wish they had a kWh left display) and compare them to the actual mileage I have driven. Then I can forecast more closely knowing what the remainder of my trip is (e.g. uphill, downhill, speed, etc). Thus, although we kept using the GPS for charging stations, my calculations showed we would make it home without a charge and we did.
Reserved 4/20/10, Ocean Blue Ordered SL 9/30/10, ESVE Installed 11/22/10, Delivered March 8th, 2011.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:49 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote: but in Summer I am 4.7-5.2 miles per kwh driving 60 mph with A/C and not once or twice but SEVERAL times.

so temperature does matter
Hmmmmm, 5.2 miles per kWh at 60mph? That is simply "amazing"! Congratulations to you and your "Super LEAF".
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DaveEV
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:09 pm

ERG4ALL wrote:Our LEAF is a 2011 with over 22,000 miles on it.

In our case we were using surface streets all the way and were showing as high as 6.0 miles per kWh and finished the trip in the high 5's. I think that's a joke as well because the LEAF supposedly limits full charge and full discharge of the battery. Thus, if we are allowed to use somewhere around 21 kWh out of 24, then we should have been able to go well over 100 miles which is dreaming.
You easily could have when your LEAF was new, now that your LEAF has aged in Arizona I suspect the gauges are not off as much as you think they are and you have a lot less usable than 21 kWh...

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:15 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote: but in Summer I am 4.7-5.2 miles per kwh driving 60 mph with A/C and not once or twice but SEVERAL times.

so temperature does matter
Hmmmmm, 5.2 miles per kWh at 60mph? That is simply "amazing"! Congratulations to you and you "Super LEAF"
4.7 is more likely and what is very unlikely is going a sustained 60 mph anywhere around here except very late at night.

also will clarify my statement a bit. the numbers are from my commute where there is a day or two a week when i do no other driving. there is a 5 mile drive at street speeds at the home end going and coming so it would not all be at 650 mph but that same stretch of city streets does not change in Winter
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
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surfingslovak
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:00 pm

Last summer, I commuted to and from work an entire week on one charge. I wanted to see if I could break the 100-mile barrier in everyday driving with a somewhat degraded battery. As you can imagine, it was a lot of low-speed driving on side streets, and I didn't make a lot of new friends, I'm afraid. Although this is within the realm of possibilities, it's not representative of the average US LEAF driver in any way, shape, or form. I think most owners get between 4.2 and 4.6 m/kWh in the summer. This could be easily determined trough telematics. Sometimes I really wish that we had the equivalent of voltstats.net for the LEAF. It would save us a few debates.


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TonyWilliams
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:56 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:... 4.7 is more likely and what is very unlikely is going a sustained 60 mph anywhere around here except very late at night.

also will clarify my statement a bit. the numbers are from my commute where there is a day or two a week when i do no other driving. there is a 5 mile drive at street speeds at the home end going and coming so it would not all be at 650 mph but that same stretch of city streets does not change in Winter
Dave, do you see the pattern that I see developing? You make a lot of accusations and outright bullshit statements based on some pretty fuzzy logic. If you works for you, awesome, but I personally don't operate that way, and really don't appreciate some of your recent "soft attacks" directed at me.

I personally don't care if you think you get 4.7 or 9.9 miles per kWh at whatever speed you want, but there might just be people following along who are new to the car who don't know any better. So, I most sincerely hope you take this as constructive criticism from me.

Thanks,

Tony

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:42 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
Publius wrote: I honestly don't see you getting 4 miles/kwh if it's 32 F where you live, and certainly don't see you getting that if it's snowing or you use the heater.... Does anyone with experience in a cold climate disagree with me?
The cold doesn't have much to do with the economy. Running the heater and plowing through snow does, though.

If the roads are dry and "uncontanimated" with snow, and the heater is off, the LEAF will get about 4 miles/kWh at 65mph regardless of the temperature on a level, no wind roadway.

Of course, if you're cutting it close, cold temperatures will increase tire rolling resistance, and the air is more dense (which requires more energy to push the car at the same speed with warmer air at the same elevation). The Range Chart (and the LEAF Energy app) take temperature and elevation into consideration (density altitude).

You don't have to live in cold weather to understand the issues.

Tony, you can say anything you want about "misleading" statements i make and maybe i do need to clarify what i say especially when it comes to commutes I have made and just because you cant get 5.2 miles /kwh or any other number does not mean that no one can.

the tests you run makes a great baseline but that is all it is. not a definitive number in anyway but that doesnt matter. we all know that

but this entire conversation started with the bolded text you put out and i will say it now and forever is total Bullshit
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
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TonyWilliams
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:24 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Tony, you can say anything you want about "misleading" statements i make and maybe i do need to clarify what i say especially when it comes to commutes I have made and just because you cant get 5.2 miles /kwh or any other number does not mean that no one can.
Sure you can... downhill or with a tailwind. No amount of super driving, air conditioner running in reverse, tires inflated to 85 psi, and flapping your arms out the window will do 5.2 miles/kWh at 60 mph on flat terrain.

the tests you run makes a great baseline but that is all it is. not a definitive number in anyway but that doesnt matter. we all know that

but this entire conversation started with the bolded text you put out and i will say it now and forever is total Bullshit

I don't think I got through in the manner I had hoped. Best wishes.

N1ghtrider
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:21 am

Tony and others. I have been getting 5.2 m/kwh at 60 mph on I-95 a lot lately, on flat roads without climate control. I usually drop down to 5.0 with the a/c on.
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