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TonyWilliams
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:07 am

Publius wrote: I honestly don't see you getting 4 miles/kwh if it's 32 F where you live, and certainly don't see you getting that if it's snowing or you use the heater.... Does anyone with experience in a cold climate disagree with me?
The cold doesn't have much to do with the economy. Running the heater and plowing through snow does, though.

If the roads are dry and "uncontanimated" with snow, and the heater is off, the LEAF will get about 4 miles/kWh at 65mph regardless of the temperature on a level, no wind roadway.

Of course, if you're cutting it close, cold temperatures will increase tire rolling resistance, and the air is more dense (which requires more energy to push the car at the same speed with warmer air at the same elevation). The Range Chart (and the LEAF Energy app) take temperature and elevation into consideration (density altitude).

You don't have to live in cold weather to understand the issues.

NYLEAF
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:04 am

The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver. In the summer, I was only charging up to 80%. In the winter, I let the car charge to 100%. I found that in the summer, full regen would become available almost immediately after leaving my house, or as soon as the 10th bar disappeared. In the winter, because I'm leaving the house with 12 bars, and because it's cold outside, I'm finding that full regen is never available on my commute. Even at 6 bars (56% on my WattsLeft meter), only 4 of the 5 regen circles are lit up, and that's at 0 mph. At highway speeds, only 2 or 3 regen circles are available. Again, this is even at a relatively low SoC. This lack of available regen is, IMHO, causing me to get lower energy economy than in the summer. FWIW, my Leaf is a few days away from turning 14 months old, has just shy of 14,000 miles on it, is always parked outside (so we can assume battery temp is the same as the outside temp), and I started the car up this morning in 35F temps and my WattsLeft meter was reading 275 gids.

To the OP, I think you'll make it just fine. Slow and steady is the key to "long-range" driving in the Leaf. No jackrabbit starts, no sudden stops. Give yourself a lot of time to brake when coming up to a red light so that you get the full regen available. As others said, find a slow moving vehicle to follow on the highway. Maybe you'll want a copy of Tony's range chart with you -- I keep a laminated copy in my glovebox.
Former Ride: 2012 Leaf SL, Ocean Blue, Leased 1/27/2012, Returned 4/27/2015, 37.7k miles & 12/12 bars
Final LeafSpy readings: AHr 60.73, SOH 92%, Hx 90.90%, 250 Gids on full charge

Current Ride: 2012 Nissan Rogue SL AWD, Black

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TonyWilliams
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:06 am

NYLEAF wrote:The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver.
Do you use the heater? If so, that explains the difference.

NYLEAF
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:12 am

TonyWilliams wrote:
NYLEAF wrote:The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver.
Do you use the heater? If so, that explains the difference.
I only pre-heat. The days that I have had to turn the heater on during my commute, I wound up with 3.0 or 3.2, instead of 3.5. Yesterday, I was able to achieve 4.4 on my round-trip commute. That was mainly because I sat in traffic both ways and it took me over 2 hours for my normal 1 hour round-trip commute.
Former Ride: 2012 Leaf SL, Ocean Blue, Leased 1/27/2012, Returned 4/27/2015, 37.7k miles & 12/12 bars
Final LeafSpy readings: AHr 60.73, SOH 92%, Hx 90.90%, 250 Gids on full charge

Current Ride: 2012 Nissan Rogue SL AWD, Black

Publius
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:40 am

Oops, I managed to overlook the part about the trip being in June. My bad.
2015 Pacific Blue e-Golf SEL
Former 2012 Cayenne Red LEAF SL
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TonyWilliams
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:44 am

NYLEAF wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:Do you use the heater? If so, that explains the difference.
I only pre-heat. The days that I have had to turn the heater on during my commute, I wound up with 3.0 or 3.2, instead of 3.5. Yesterday, I was able to achieve 4.4 on my round-trip commute. That was mainly because I sat in traffic both ways and it took me over 2 hours for my normal 1 hour round-trip commute.
So, you're not comparing apples to apples when you say the "cold" weather makes your mileage go down. I presume it wasn't hot yesterday, yet you got 4.4.

Again, on an apples to apples "everything the same" except the outside air temperature, the LEAF will get predominately the same economy. No, the economy won't likely be identical for the reasons stated above, but it won't be 25% less either.

The thing that kills range in general is speed, and in the winter, cold weather brings a whole host of issues that affect range in addition to speed:

* cold on the battery decreases capacity
* cold weather generally includes heater use which can drastically reduce economy
* cold weather generally includes roadway snow or standing slush or water which can drastically reduce economy
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nubo
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:47 am

Nevermind.... I totally missed the part about "renting".
Last edited by Nubo on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

RonDawg
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:03 am

SaveOurPlanet wrote:It's 74 miles from the dealership in Massachusetts where I will rent the Leaf to my final destination. 50 miles of that is highway - the rest rural roads with maybe 35mph of a speed limit - will I be able to make it on a full charge, or do I have to stop along the way and top up? The dealership said the Nissan Leaf will be fully charged at pickup, and there also are no plans to drive around further for a while once arriving at the final destination, so it's okay to arrive with a nearly empty battery.
The part I bolded is what is giving me pause here.

Did the dealership say you will be renting a 2013 model? If not, I would be concerned about trying to do that sort of range in an older rental Leaf, which could be up to two years old. The distance you are planning to travel is normally at the edge of a BRAND NEW Leaf's range, much less one with a degraded battery.

Massachusetts is not Texas or Arizona, but the battery could have lost capacity bars from misuse or even abuse. For example, the dealership could have left the car at 100% charge for long periods of time over the summer. For that reason, I would plot out a route where you can stop at a public 240 volt charger for at least an hour, probably two, on the way home. Less if there is a Quick Charger on the way and the car you get has that capability (not all Leafs do).

Since you are renting a Leaf and have questions about range, I presume you don't own an EV/PHEV now and thus don't have 240 volt charging at home? If so, keep in mind that if you drive the Leaf to the point of the Low Battery Warning, it will take a LONG time to charge the battery back up at 120 volts....up to 20 hours. Even if you have 240 volt charging, you will need up to 8 hours to charge the car if you let the charge drop that far.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

LEAFfan
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:07 am

NYLEAF wrote:The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver. In the summer, I was only charging up to 80%. In the winter, I let the car charge to 100%. I found that in the summer, full regen would become available almost immediately after leaving my house, or as soon as the 10th bar disappeared. In the winter, because I'm leaving the house with 12 bars, and because it's cold outside, I'm finding that full regen is never available on my commute. Even at 6 bars (56% on my WattsLeft meter), only 4 of the 5 regen circles are lit up, and that's at 0 mph. At highway speeds, only 2 or 3 regen circles are available. Again, this is even at a relatively low SoC. This lack of available regen is, IMHO, causing me to get lower energy economy than in the summer. FWIW, my Leaf is a few days away from turning 14 months old, has just shy of 14,000 miles on it, is always parked outside (so we can assume battery temp is the same as the outside temp), and I started the car up this morning in 35F temps and my WattsLeft meter was reading 275 gids.

To the OP, I think you'll make it just fine. Slow and steady is the key to "long-range" driving in the Leaf. No jackrabbit starts, no sudden stops. Give yourself a lot of time to brake when coming up to a red light so that you get the full regen available. As others said, find a slow moving vehicle to follow on the highway. Maybe you'll want a copy of Tony's rangechart with you -- I keep a laminated copy in my glovebox.
The OP will do better if he coasts in N to the stoplights on the rural roads rather than using regen.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

Reddy
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Re: 74 miles on a single charge?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:19 am

SaveOurPlanet wrote:...It's 74 miles from the dealership in Massachusetts where I will rent the Leaf to my final destination. 50 miles of that is highway - the rest rural roads with maybe 35mph of a speed limit .... it will be June, so it's not going to be freezing. Still, maybe light AC use will be nice (which takes some extra energy, it can also be turned off for a while), and New England is a little hilly, which could cost some range, and the car will be loaded with 2 passengers, still eco mode can be permanently switched on - will 74 miles on a single full charge be possible?
Yes, it's certainly doable. If the batteries are new, fully charged, nice 76 F (average for June in Boston), no wind, etc, you should be able to drive 65 mph no problem. Given less than optimum conditions, I would also expect no problems at 60 mph. Given 50 mi highway and 24 mi at 35 mph, you should have ample contingency. Now, as others have said, make sure the battery is FULLY charged (12 bars, 0:00 min to 100%). Also, find out if this is a new or used Leaf, and how long it has sat at the dealership. An older Leaf may be down 10-15% and still show all 12 bars. Again, not a problem, but you will need to adjust speed. The hills will drive you (via the Guess-o-meter) crazy, but the only important factor is the NET gain/loss in elevation. If you need to drive up hill and into the wind, you'll need additional speed adjustments for that. If it's the other way around, no problems (I drove 80 mi at 60-70 mph from 11/12 bars and only got to LBW). See Tony's range chart for details.
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

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