74 miles on a single charge?

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SaveOurPlanet

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
14
Hello everyone,

I already asked the following question in the Newbies section already, and there were no replies yet, I figured probably because the question was buried deeply in the rental car thread. So I hope it's ok that I post it here again, as it is the "range" subforum - otherwise, dear moderator, just delete this post. :)



It's 74 miles from the dealership in Massachusetts where I will rent the Leaf to my final destination. 50 miles of that is highway - the rest rural roads with maybe 35mph of a speed limit - will I be able to make it on a full charge, or do I have to stop along the way and top up? The dealership said the Nissan Leaf will be fully charged at pickup, and there also are no plans to drive around further for a while once arriving at the final destination, so it's okay to arrive with a nearly empty battery.

I read a lot about range, like Paul Scott gets 100 miles on a full charge, and there is the range chart here on the forum with also seems to indicate that the 74 miles are doable. Then again, there is this thread here "The Dealer told me not to buy a Leaf", and there people are saying it might even not be possible to do 80 miles in a day, even with recharging.

In my case, it will be June, so it's not going to be freezing. Still, maybe light AC use will be nice (which takes some extra energy, it can also be turned off for a while), and New England is a little hilly, which could cost some range, and the car will be loaded with 2 passengers, still eco mode can be permanently switched on - will 74 miles on a single full charge be possible?

Thanks for any replies,
best regards,
SaveOurPlanet
 
newownermnl
LEAFfan said:
It'll be a piece of cake as long as you go no faster than 65mph on the freeway.
Correct. I'd be conservative with freeway speed, and put the A/C to a fairly high setting, and not something like 68 F. That should help dehumidify the cabin, and keep it pleasant without consuming too much energy. Please have a look at Tony's latest range test. It's been demonstrated that the LEAF can travel more than 80 miles at a steady speed of 65 mph indicated on the dash. Please keep in mind that there will be numerous warning chimes as you slide below the very low battery warning. It can be a bit unnerving for a new owner. Please watch the state of charge, which should be indicated as a percentage gauge on the dash now. You might want to try to get about 0.9 miles per percentage point. Also, ask the dealer to help reset the energy economy gauge before you head home. Try to keep it above 4 miles/kWh.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJudzKQftv4[/youtube]
 
I recently drove 63 miles one day and the guess-o-meter still showed 31 miles remaining. Granted I probably hadn't exceeded 50 mph that day but I would think I could have easily gone another 11 miles and then some. Our Leaf is almost a year old and has 8,000 miles.
 
I would actually chime in and say this will be cutting it close. But I will agree it should be doable. I would try to stay under 65 on the highway. I'm not sure what kind of highway it is, but maybe if you can find a big truck, bus, or something moving slow then just get behind it and stay behind it. Not only will it help remind you to keep the speed down, but others will blame the slowness on the large vehicle and not you so you don't have to be embarrassed going slow.

Also if you are "renting" this Leaf, how do you plan to charge it? If you are going to use the 120V cord, it is worth mentioning that you are going to arrive at your home with pretty much a fully drained car. A full charge with the 120V cord will probably take nearly an entire day, probably close to 20 hours.
 
Also, you want to confirm that the dealer will be charging to 100% and not 80%. The dealers don't always seem to know how to charge to 100%.
 
I don't know what the weather is like in Massachusetts right now, but we have a descent amount of snow in NY, and I would be a little nervous to drive 74 miles on a charge in cold and/or snowy weather. Keep in mind that cold weather impacts range, especially when you use the heater of if you're dealing with snow (increased rolling resistance). I would suggest not using the heater on your trip if at all possible. I keep the air circulation on outside air instead of re-circulation because, in my experience, the windows don't fog up as easily, allowing me to skip the defroster (which works with the heater and will reduce your range). Drive in ECO mode, accelerate slowly, coast to a stop whenever possible, and keep your speed down if it's safe. Also, don't be afraid to put the car in neutral to turn off the regenerative breaking to maximize your coasting distance, or to switch to D to reduce the regenerative breaking to coast to a stop over long distances (if safe). Lastly, I would check out PlugShare to see what public and private charge stations are available near your route because you may need them.
 
I just plugged 74 miles into the LEAF Energy App, and at 32 F (the current temp. in Boston, MA, which may or may not be accurate for your location) it tells me that you would need to average 3.9 miles/kwh to complete your trip on one charge. I honestly don't see you getting 4 miles/kwh if it's 32 F where you live, and certainly don't see you getting that if it's snowing or you use the heater. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I do live in a cold climate and I notice that the people who say it's doable all live in much warmer climates. FYI, at 70 F the LEAF Energy App says you would only need to average 3.5 miles/kwh, which I think would be easy on a 70 F day. Does anyone with experience in a cold climate disagree with me?
 
SaveOurPlanet said:
I read a lot about range, like Paul Scott gets 100 miles on a full charge, and there is the range chart here on the forum with also seems to indicate that the 74 miles are doable. Then again, there is this thread here "The Dealer told me not to buy a Leaf", and there people are saying it might even not be possible to do 80 miles in a day, even with recharging.

In my case, it will be June, so it's not going to be freezing. Still, maybe light AC use will be nice (which takes some extra energy, it can also be turned off for a while), and New England is a little hilly, which could cost some range, and the car will be loaded with 2 passengers, still eco mode can be permanently switched on - will 74 miles on a single full charge be possible?

Mr. Scott is the rare exception of folks suggesting the car will go 100 miles in the mass USA consumer's hands. I actually seriously doubt that he regularly drives 100 miles per charge... he merely presumes that it will based on his extreme driving techniques, and maybe it will. The LEAF just doesn't normally go 100 miles, and it does a disservice to the LEAF to tell consumers that it does. You'll note that Nissan has long since stopped advertising 100 miles of range.

That doesn't mean you can't drive it 151 miles, like LEAFfan did, or 100 miles like these 44 souls did, including me. Go read the linked thread to see what folks have to do to ACTUALLY drive 100 miles (you'll note Mr. Scott is NOT on that list).

With summer time with a new car, heater off, moderate steady speed at 65mph with no elevation gain overall (going up and down rolling hills will only marginally affect range, provided the end point is not higher that the start), the car will go about 81 miles, plus or minus a few. You want to go 74, which is ENTIRELY doable, but yes, you will see Low Battery Warning at 17% and also likely get close to Very Low Battery Warning at 8%. As the Range Chart shows, at 65 mph, you have about 4 miles remaining before Turtle mode.

If you can remain within the prescribed parameters, you'll make it. If you run the air conditioning, there will obviously be a closer margin of error. If you are not driving at a steady speed, you need to have 4 miles per kWh or better economy.

As the car ages, or if the battery is cold, its capacity will be diminished and this trip won't be possible at the same speeds. Snow and standing rain on the roadway will also diminish range.
 
this ought to be easy, as it is in june, unless it is raining. dont pull a broder.
check that u r at 100% or charge up.
weather counts in efficiency. rain or snow are bummers.
you are a rookie, so watch the bubbles and dont ever see 3 for more than 5-10 seconds. just slow down and ride the wave. you dont need to push, it will accelerate and build momentum when you start from stops.
watch your bars to see your power usage.
you have 12 bars, if you get 6 miles a bar on the first few, you have developed a good pace and you will make it.
if not, adjust your driving style--just go slower. turn off the heater, or in this case, the AC, which is far less a factor than heating, but still a factor.
there are about 10-15 miles you cant see in bars--so cut ur speed after you start getting warnings.
folks will fill in on that number, i am sure, to tell you precisely what distance is left at Low and Very Low Battery warning.
 
Publius said:
I honestly don't see you getting 4 miles/kwh if it's 32 F where you live, and certainly don't see you getting that if it's snowing or you use the heater.... Does anyone with experience in a cold climate disagree with me?

The cold doesn't have much to do with the economy. Running the heater and plowing through snow does, though.

If the roads are dry and "uncontanimated" with snow, and the heater is off, the LEAF will get about 4 miles/kWh at 65mph regardless of the temperature on a level, no wind roadway.

Of course, if you're cutting it close, cold temperatures will increase tire rolling resistance, and the air is more dense (which requires more energy to push the car at the same speed with warmer air at the same elevation). The Range Chart (and the LEAF Energy app) take temperature and elevation into consideration (density altitude).

You don't have to live in cold weather to understand the issues.
 
The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver. In the summer, I was only charging up to 80%. In the winter, I let the car charge to 100%. I found that in the summer, full regen would become available almost immediately after leaving my house, or as soon as the 10th bar disappeared. In the winter, because I'm leaving the house with 12 bars, and because it's cold outside, I'm finding that full regen is never available on my commute. Even at 6 bars (56% on my WattsLeft meter), only 4 of the 5 regen circles are lit up, and that's at 0 mph. At highway speeds, only 2 or 3 regen circles are available. Again, this is even at a relatively low SoC. This lack of available regen is, IMHO, causing me to get lower energy economy than in the summer. FWIW, my Leaf is a few days away from turning 14 months old, has just shy of 14,000 miles on it, is always parked outside (so we can assume battery temp is the same as the outside temp), and I started the car up this morning in 35F temps and my WattsLeft meter was reading 275 gids.

To the OP, I think you'll make it just fine. Slow and steady is the key to "long-range" driving in the Leaf. No jackrabbit starts, no sudden stops. Give yourself a lot of time to brake when coming up to a red light so that you get the full regen available. As others said, find a slow moving vehicle to follow on the highway. Maybe you'll want a copy of Tony's range chart with you -- I keep a laminated copy in my glovebox.
 
NYLEAF said:
The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver.

Do you use the heater? If so, that explains the difference.
 
TonyWilliams said:
NYLEAF said:
The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver.

Do you use the heater? If so, that explains the difference.

I only pre-heat. The days that I have had to turn the heater on during my commute, I wound up with 3.0 or 3.2, instead of 3.5. Yesterday, I was able to achieve 4.4 on my round-trip commute. That was mainly because I sat in traffic both ways and it took me over 2 hours for my normal 1 hour round-trip commute.
 
NYLEAF said:
TonyWilliams said:
Do you use the heater? If so, that explains the difference.

I only pre-heat. The days that I have had to turn the heater on during my commute, I wound up with 3.0 or 3.2, instead of 3.5. Yesterday, I was able to achieve 4.4 on my round-trip commute. That was mainly because I sat in traffic both ways and it took me over 2 hours for my normal 1 hour round-trip commute.

So, you're not comparing apples to apples when you say the "cold" weather makes your mileage go down. I presume it wasn't hot yesterday, yet you got 4.4.

Again, on an apples to apples "everything the same" except the outside air temperature, the LEAF will get predominately the same economy. No, the economy won't likely be identical for the reasons stated above, but it won't be 25% less either.

The thing that kills range in general is speed, and in the winter, cold weather brings a whole host of issues that affect range in addition to speed:

* cold on the battery decreases capacity
* cold weather generally includes heater use which can drastically reduce economy
* cold weather generally includes roadway snow or standing slush or water which can drastically reduce economy
 
SaveOurPlanet said:
It's 74 miles from the dealership in Massachusetts where I will rent the Leaf to my final destination. 50 miles of that is highway - the rest rural roads with maybe 35mph of a speed limit - will I be able to make it on a full charge, or do I have to stop along the way and top up? The dealership said the Nissan Leaf will be fully charged at pickup, and there also are no plans to drive around further for a while once arriving at the final destination, so it's okay to arrive with a nearly empty battery.

The part I bolded is what is giving me pause here.

Did the dealership say you will be renting a 2013 model? If not, I would be concerned about trying to do that sort of range in an older rental Leaf, which could be up to two years old. The distance you are planning to travel is normally at the edge of a BRAND NEW Leaf's range, much less one with a degraded battery.

Massachusetts is not Texas or Arizona, but the battery could have lost capacity bars from misuse or even abuse. For example, the dealership could have left the car at 100% charge for long periods of time over the summer. For that reason, I would plot out a route where you can stop at a public 240 volt charger for at least an hour, probably two, on the way home. Less if there is a Quick Charger on the way and the car you get has that capability (not all Leafs do).

Since you are renting a Leaf and have questions about range, I presume you don't own an EV/PHEV now and thus don't have 240 volt charging at home? If so, keep in mind that if you drive the Leaf to the point of the Low Battery Warning, it will take a LONG time to charge the battery back up at 120 volts....up to 20 hours. Even if you have 240 volt charging, you will need up to 8 hours to charge the car if you let the charge drop that far.
 
NYLEAF said:
The OP states that the trip will be in June, so I don't think snow and cold temps will be much of a factor.

However, I do find that the cold does significantly impact my Mi/kWh. In the summer, I was able to easily bang out 4.5 mi/kwh on my commute to and from work. In the winter, I struggle to get above 3.5. Same car, same route, same driver. In the summer, I was only charging up to 80%. In the winter, I let the car charge to 100%. I found that in the summer, full regen would become available almost immediately after leaving my house, or as soon as the 10th bar disappeared. In the winter, because I'm leaving the house with 12 bars, and because it's cold outside, I'm finding that full regen is never available on my commute. Even at 6 bars (56% on my WattsLeft meter), only 4 of the 5 regen circles are lit up, and that's at 0 mph. At highway speeds, only 2 or 3 regen circles are available. Again, this is even at a relatively low SoC. This lack of available regen is, IMHO, causing me to get lower energy economy than in the summer. FWIW, my Leaf is a few days away from turning 14 months old, has just shy of 14,000 miles on it, is always parked outside (so we can assume battery temp is the same as the outside temp), and I started the car up this morning in 35F temps and my WattsLeft meter was reading 275 gids.

To the OP, I think you'll make it just fine. Slow and steady is the key to "long-range" driving in the Leaf. No jackrabbit starts, no sudden stops. Give yourself a lot of time to brake when coming up to a red light so that you get the full regen available. As others said, find a slow moving vehicle to follow on the highway. Maybe you'll want a copy of Tony's rangechart with you -- I keep a laminated copy in my glovebox.

The OP will do better if he coasts in N to the stoplights on the rural roads rather than using regen.
 
SaveOurPlanet said:
...It's 74 miles from the dealership in Massachusetts where I will rent the Leaf to my final destination. 50 miles of that is highway - the rest rural roads with maybe 35mph of a speed limit .... it will be June, so it's not going to be freezing. Still, maybe light AC use will be nice (which takes some extra energy, it can also be turned off for a while), and New England is a little hilly, which could cost some range, and the car will be loaded with 2 passengers, still eco mode can be permanently switched on - will 74 miles on a single full charge be possible?
Yes, it's certainly doable. If the batteries are new, fully charged, nice 76 F (average for June in Boston), no wind, etc, you should be able to drive 65 mph no problem. Given less than optimum conditions, I would also expect no problems at 60 mph. Given 50 mi highway and 24 mi at 35 mph, you should have ample contingency. Now, as others have said, make sure the battery is FULLY charged (12 bars, 0:00 min to 100%). Also, find out if this is a new or used Leaf, and how long it has sat at the dealership. An older Leaf may be down 10-15% and still show all 12 bars. Again, not a problem, but you will need to adjust speed. The hills will drive you (via the Guess-o-meter) crazy, but the only important factor is the NET gain/loss in elevation. If you need to drive up hill and into the wind, you'll need additional speed adjustments for that. If it's the other way around, no problems (I drove 80 mi at 60-70 mph from 11/12 bars and only got to LBW). See Tony's range chart for details.
 
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