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TonyWilliams
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Re: 2012 / 2013 LEAF Range Test San Diego Mar 8, 2013

Wed May 07, 2014 6:26 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:I personally don't subscribe to the "drive down the freeway, then turnaround and come back" being an even roundtrip experiment. conditions vary too much. when using a high efficiency vehicle, it matters. When driving a vehicle that uses only 25% of the available energy to get down the road, it matters less...by about 400%
Please explain what is a valid round trip that compensates for both elevation and wind.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: 2012 / 2013 LEAF Range Test San Diego Mar 8, 2013

Wed May 07, 2014 6:47 am

TonyWilliams wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:I personally don't subscribe to the "drive down the freeway, then turnaround and come back" being an even roundtrip experiment. conditions vary too much. when using a high efficiency vehicle, it matters. When driving a vehicle that uses only 25% of the available energy to get down the road, it matters less...by about 400%
Please explain what is a valid round trip that compensates for both elevation and wind.
I think you would be better off to refer to the first sentence of my comment. you want a trip that takes into account the variance of such, get on a track
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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TonyWilliams
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Re: 2012 / 2013 LEAF Range Test San Diego Mar 8, 2013

Wed May 07, 2014 6:49 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:I personally don't subscribe to the "drive down the freeway, then turnaround and come back" being an even roundtrip experiment. conditions vary too much. when using a high efficiency vehicle, it matters. When driving a vehicle that uses only 25% of the available energy to get down the road, it matters less...by about 400%
Please explain what is a valid round trip that compensates for both elevation and wind.
I think you would be better off to refer to the first sentence of my comment. you want a trip that takes into account the variance of such, get on a track
So, the wind and elevation are different on a track?

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: 2012 / 2013 LEAF Range Test San Diego Mar 8, 2013

Wed May 07, 2014 7:03 am

TonyWilliams wrote:
So, the wind and elevation are different on a track?
if you are able to find an acceptable roundtrip, fine. for me; that is nearly impossible and that is due to changing weather conditions and freeways that are not "equal but opposite" slopes are different, exposure to wind is different, etc. the terrain around here simply does not allow it here.

a track simply minimizes the differences by allowing seeing similar or "less different" conditions on every lap in a much smaller time frame.

the other reason I am not a believer of these tests is that I dont have the luxury of jumping on the freeway, hitting my set speed and beebopping down the road. CA has the most extensive freeway network in the World. you have a lot of options for nearly every destination, I do not. So range tests mean nothing to me when I cannot correlate them to my personal situation.

as far as the argument that a range test still gives you a baseline to compare with, that is nonsensical. Compare to what? LEAF verses LEAF? ahhh, no does not even do that. It only tells me what the LEAF can do in a single scenario; a set speed freeway trip. One I would rarely if ever see.

You concluded that there is no difference in range between MY and your methodology is sound. I concluded that my 2013 has more range than my 2011 does but my methodology ONLY uses the thing that matters to me and that is how well my LEAF gets me to where I need to be.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mkjayakumar
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Re: 2012 / 2013 LEAF Range Test San Diego Mar 8, 2013

Wed May 07, 2014 8:42 am

o range tests mean nothing to me when I cannot correlate them to my personal situation
How does going round and round and round on a track correlate to your personal situation ?

In fact I would think that going in circles on a track will skew numbers and you will be less efficient than in real world scenario.
2011 Leaf, 30K miles, returned after 24 month lease.
Currently leasing 2014 Leaf SV.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: 2012 / 2013 LEAF Range Test San Diego Mar 8, 2013

Wed May 07, 2014 9:11 am

mkjayakumar wrote:
o range tests mean nothing to me when I cannot correlate them to my personal situation
How does going round and round and round on a track correlate to your personal situation ?

In fact I would think that going in circles on a track will skew numbers and you will be less efficient than in real world scenario.
you missed my point COMPLETELY.

the answer is it doesn't. does anyone remember the press release by Nissan announcing the 2013? The range increase should not be a surprise to anyone who does.
Changes to the 2013 Nissan LEAF start with improved energy efficiency* due to refined aerodynamics, a wider range of regenerative braking, improved energy management....

...Due to efficiency improvements, the 2013 Nissan LEAF is expected to offer improved range, with testing on the EPA test cycle to be announced at a later date.
But instead we chose to take the results of a single event testing a single scenario and somehow that became the definitive statement on LEAF progress. This test showed no improvement so we wrote off Nissan's statement as referring to a better heater (which applies to some of us) and the elimination of the 80% charging consideration.

But now we have dozens of people driving these cars on a daily basis who are making "outlandish" range claims. So should Tony's test be thrown out? lets face it. He has the initiative, resources and the opportunity to go out and do things we want to but dont or cant. His results are valid for the test he performed. making sweeping statements about Nissan's lack of concern, commitment or progress is not.

http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mkjayakumar
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Re: 2012 / 2013 LEAF Range Test San Diego Mar 8, 2013

Wed May 07, 2014 10:16 am

In retrospect, I can attest that my 2014 definitely seems to have a solid 100+ mile range when driven at less than 50mph with no hypermiling, something that was difficult with my 2011. Maybe its an illusion.

On the other hand, as an engineer, nothing like performing a controlled test and doing some actual measurements and making educated inferences, like what Tony did. So I am a little flummoxed! (finally got an opportunity to use this word in a sentence :-))
2011 Leaf, 30K miles, returned after 24 month lease.
Currently leasing 2014 Leaf SV.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15642
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Re: 2012 / 2013 LEAF Range Test San Diego Mar 8, 2013

Wed May 07, 2014 1:15 pm

mkjayakumar wrote:In retrospect, I can attest that my 2014 definitely seems to have a solid 100+ mile range when driven at less than 50mph with no hypermiling, something that was difficult with my 2011. Maybe its an illusion.

On the other hand, as an engineer, nothing like performing a controlled test and doing some actual measurements and making educated inferences, like what Tony did. So I am a little flummoxed! (finally got an opportunity to use this word in a sentence :-))
your statement confuses me. as an engineer you must realize that any single test ONLY tests a single set of circumstances.

I drive on the freeway a lot. In fact, nearly everywhere I go is on the freeway since I changed jobs. My office is in Tacoma 23 miles away. Despite all that, probably less than 50% of my driving is done at a steady speed despite more than 80-85% of my miles being on the freeway.

I think Nissan realizes this and chose to optimize the LEAF to do better in town.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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