SageBrush
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Re: How to burn some reduction gear oil...

Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:53 am

voltamps wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:14 am
With the Leaf, the weakness is lack of a fluild filter, although who wants that extra complexity?
Was that humor, or were you talking about a pump ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
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knightmb
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Re: How to burn some reduction gear oil...

Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:52 am

voltamps wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:14 am
GerryAZ wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:18 pm
There is a gearcase vent.
I see it, yes a "Hose Breather", costs all of $6.32 . A picture is at:
https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts-l ... tting.html
Oh, that is interesting. Does it feed in anything else or is it just literally facing "down" like in the picture to keep water from creeping in?
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2013 Leaf SV (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles)
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voltamps
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Re: How to burn some reduction gear oil...

Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:11 am

SageBrush, knightmb, Certainly a filter would also need a pump. A filter+pump is nice to some degree. ... I prefer the simpler no-filter, no-pump, easy to change Leaf system vs. the Tesla Model 3,Y, & Bolt's filter+pump system. ...........Water shouldn't get down that vent pipe.
2020 Leaf SV - sold - I'll get another EV later...Reserved the irresistible Maverick Hybrid, here in a few months
2016 Ford Focus Electric (traded in at 34k miles, 5 years)

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Nubo
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Re: How to burn some reduction gear oil...

Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:49 pm

voltamps wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:14 am
The brown color may be more the Red Dye breaking down than anything else. It could be long-term oxidation though, I'm not sure. .............With the Leaf, the weakness is lack of a fluild filter, although who wants that extra complexity? Metal wear particles circulating in there are the BIG issue, and those twin magnets help a lot. Blackstone shows some iron floating around that never gets attached, or maybe gets freed from time to time, from the magnets. Hard to get it all out.
From changing regular gear oils, I can say that even normal amounts of wear metals completely change the appearance of the fluid. Gear oil that goes in with a light honey-color, comes out looking silvery gray even at a shortened change interval. The appearance is dependent on the lighting. In some light it appears nearly clean and other lighting makes it look like silvered paint. And this effect is from the tiny particles that escape the magnets. I'd liken it to the StarLink satellites that are visible from the ground at night, despite their diminutive size and great distance.

Since magnetic drain plugs have been deemed sufficient "filtration" for gearboxes in the billions, they must do a fair job of removing critical contaminants even though they leave particles of less consequence in suspension. No filtration is perfect. What's the payback for a more complex system? I'd be curious to know how much better a media-filtered system is at extending service life of comparable gearboxes. Maybe there's some data out there from industrial applications. I guess it's also worth considering that the larger particles that DO get caught by the magnets spend some time circulating before finding themselves in capture distance of a magnet. I'd love to hear the opinions of a mechanical engineer on this topic.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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Nubo
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Re: How to burn some reduction gear oil...

Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:50 pm

knightmb wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:49 am
Learjet wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:12 am
I would think it is the AC drive motor heating up and maybe burning off some production residue.
I've often wondered if I am smelling ozone production from the motor? The smell reminds me of what a laser copier smells like while running.
I'd say mine tended towards "warm electrical components", if that makes any sense. Maybe motor windings?
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

voltamps
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Re: How to burn some reduction gear oil...

Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:23 pm

Nubo wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:49 pm
No filtration is perfect. What's the payback for a more complex system? I'd be curious to know how much better a media-filtered system is at extending service life of comparable gearboxes. Maybe there's some data out there from industrial applications. I guess it's also worth considering that the larger particles that DO get caught by the magnets spend some time circulating before finding themselves in capture distance of a magnet. I'd love to hear the opinions of a mechanical engineer on this topic.
Filtration is very good at getting wear rates down, especially important in the more powerful Tesla motors that put high pressures on the gear faces. Tesla must have finally concluded a filter was worth it. The oil system pump is there to promote better gear cooling, important since the Tesla Model 3 goes 140 mph. That fast & heat is incredible in there. With a pump for cooling, might as well put in a filter, as it could also save a few warranty claims along the way when bigger metal chunks occasionally appear in a few units. ...... My 1st degree was in Mech Engineering, but I've mostly worked aerospace & software after the 1980s, not gears. Others have more recent kinematics & gear design mech experience than me if they are on this non-tech forum anyway.
2020 Leaf SV - sold - I'll get another EV later...Reserved the irresistible Maverick Hybrid, here in a few months
2016 Ford Focus Electric (traded in at 34k miles, 5 years)

estomax
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Re: How to burn some reduction gear oil...

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:23 pm

knight, is the smell before or after you put the ULV fluid in the gearbox? I have not been able to get any smells out of the leaf, so either you are slightly over filled or the ULV fluid is behaving differently and foaming up or something to make it out of the breather vent.

Marko
2013 Leaf SL
27k, 93% SoH 2/17 46k, 94% SoH 2/18
62k, 87% SoH 2/19 75k, 83% SoH 2/20
81k, 81% SoH 2/21

knightmb
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Re: How to burn some reduction gear oil...

Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:28 pm

estomax wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:23 pm
knight, is the smell before or after you put the ULV fluid in the gearbox? I have not been able to get any smells out of the leaf, so either you are slightly over filled or the ULV fluid is behaving differently and foaming up or something to make it out of the breather vent.

Marko
Both. It did it before and after. It seems to take more effort to make it happen with the ULV in it, but given a big enough hill and a long enough stretch to run full power for over +10 seconds and I can get the smell to come out. Oddly enough, tried to do it again today (put a paper-towel around the end of the breather to see if it would catch anything) and was not able to reproduce. It was hot today, much more so than the other days, so I'm at a loss.

I did try an experiment of purposely burning some of the ULV in the oven (wife hates me) to see if it was what I was smelling, didn't smell the same. It does smell like a combo of fresh transmission oil (not burning) and that ozone smell you get from electronics (like a laser printer for example)
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2013 Leaf SV (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles)
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estomax
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:23 pm
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Re: How to burn some reduction gear oil...

Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:59 am

i've only once had diff oil come through the breather and that was the rear diff on my 240sx after i did a few 0-120 runs, haven't seen it happen otherwise and it didn't really smell either. The oil in our gearbox doesnt even get that warm as you proved, so i am betting the smell you are smelling is from the inverter area rather than the gear oil.

Marko
2013 Leaf SL
27k, 93% SoH 2/17 46k, 94% SoH 2/18
62k, 87% SoH 2/19 75k, 83% SoH 2/20
81k, 81% SoH 2/21

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