Troubleshooting a flooded Leaf

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Dala

Dala

Well-known member
Leaf Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
464
Location
Finland
So I've got an interesting one on the way. Thought I might ask here for some advice, maybe someone has dealt with a flooded Leaf before?

So the story goes, car was flooded while it resided in USA, then sold to Finland. Car arrived March 2018, with he following fault codes.
k9LTzw8.jpg


No clue how much it was flooded, but the car wouldn't accept a charge.

Fast forward to today. The car throws even more fault codes than ever, and quite severe ones. Check this out
IANaalO.jpg


So, any tips on what to check first? I intend to drop the battery to get a better look at where the water has gone. No clue on severity, I will update this thread with pics once the car arrives at my shop.

Cheers!
 
The 12 volt battery is dead or very low, there are ground and isolation issues (likely from water and corrosion) in the main battery, and what may be a bunch of badly shorted cells as well. I wouldn't do anything with that pack but remove and keep the undamaged cell modules - if there are any.
 
I spoke with a guy in NY who had 3-4 Leafs that were in a hurricane. He said they were flooded up to the windows in the cars.

All of the batteries were fine. He said all sorts of things were bad, damaged, etc from the water, but the batteries were all waterproof and held up well. IFIRC, these were either all or mostly 1st gen (2011/2012) Leafs--with the original Gen1 battery design.

That being said, the diagnostic codes don't bode well for the battery. I suspect the BMS is toast or the battery has somehow completely discharged some or all of the cells.

My first thought in reading the thread summary was: "Oh gee. Another backyard mechanic getting himself WAY in over his head. This isn't an ICE. Don't touch with a 1000ft pole. Then I saw it was you (Dala), and I felt a lot better". :)

Agree with the other posters here. Start by ensuring a good charge on 12V and resetting codes. Once you've done that, if the codes remain, it looks like you have a fried OBC and severely damaged battery pack. The car is indicating that there's an unexpected short to ground in the battery pack, among other things.
 
I took delivery of the car today.

MkGrZub.jpg


It boots and goes from P to N, the ready to drive icon does not illuminate. It was good that it atleast switches between P&N, I then pulled it into the garage. Instrumentation cluster works, infotainment looks solid, normal things like horn, lights, blinkers etc. Customer states it just wont drive or charge. Thankfully the floormat was removed so I have easy access to all electrical connections.

N2BgPXB.jpg


I fear that the battery is toast (after sitting at 0% for so long), so I think a visual inspection and taking a few measurements there is the best place to start. Since it's so cold in the workshop, -12*C (10*F), I fired up the heating system and will continue tomorrow morning with some real troubleshooting.
 
Well atleast the main fuse is missing. But this got me a bit perplexed, this is the newer style fuse right? This should have been a 2011 car, but this can impossible be a 2011 battery?

LjM298v.jpg
 
The battery pack appears to be a warranty replacement pack. It's def a 2013-2015 pack (2011 car).
slSqh74.jpg


But it's strange that it has the 22-pin connector. Usually the 2013+ has the 36-pin connector.
alVX5nv.jpg


I don't have a 3d-printable Yazaki connector yet for the 22-pin, so I had to improvise
YLMt1ho.jpg


This does not instill much hope.
TBIF0lu.jpg
 
It may be that early build 2013 packs - the ones with the old chemistry but new housings, also use the old connectors. Just a wild guess...


EDIT: or that's the adapter kit to use a Gen 1.5 pack with a Gen 1 car.
 
Nice looking car.

So with the service plug missing then it for sure wouldn't charge or start, and may not be able to report any CAN data. Would the LBC respond if the interlock signal were open?

The cast aluminum plate holding the LB1/B24 connector was made in 2015.
 
nlspace said:
Nice looking car.

So with the service plug missing then it for sure wouldn't charge or start, and may not be able to report any CAN data. Would the LBC respond if the interlock signal were open?

The cast aluminum plate holding the LB1/B24 connector was made in 2015.
Click to expand...

Well spotted that it's a -15! Seems to be a factory battery replacement then, since afaik no 2015 should have this 22-pin (or be without the DC heater plug)

With the main fuse disconnected the LBC should still be able to read cell voltages. I verified this by taking a measurement on another 2015 pack I had in the shop. So the LBC functions somewhat, but still unsure if all cells have failed or if the LBC has failed.

Anyhow, I will be installing another battery pack into the car, but first I need to print out some adapter wiring harnesses. Watch this space in 48h.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I think that this car either was underwater for a while, or at best was flooded above the battery for a long time.
Click to expand...

Yes, and once water enters any of the ECUs, that module is basically non-functional even if the moisture is gone.
All the ECUs need to be removed and fully inspected, Some may function for a short term, but become a reliability
problem long term. The two CAN network signals need to be tested using an oscilloscope, and all other signals
accessible. Vehicles that received extensive flooding from hurricane Sandy in NY were basically non-salvageable
especially the post 2000 vehicles.
 
These packs have a flange seal and a test port to check that they are air-tight. i would guess and hope that no water got into the pack since they took such measures, but maybe dala will find out how good the seal worked. The OBC is not sealed and neither is the VCM. i guess it depends on how high the water level went. Appears to be a fresh water flood; the electronics in salt water flood cars are dissolved.
 
nlspace said:
These packs have a flange seal and a test port to check that they are air-tight. i would guess and hope that no water got into the pack since they took such measures, but maybe dala will find out how good the seal worked. The OBC is not sealed and neither is the VCM. i guess it depends on how high the water level went. Appears to be a fresh water flood; the electronics in salt water flood cars are dissolved.
Click to expand...

Remember, some of the integrated circuits (chips), e.g. processor chips, operate at 3.3 volts and a current leakage (via moisture/water) from
even a 12V source can damage a chip. Furthermore, the chips are not military grade (HiRel) and are not packaged to prevent water penetration.
 
Dala said:
Well spotted that it's a -15! Seems to be a factory battery replacement then, since afaik no 2015 should have this 22-pin (or be without the DC heater plug)
Click to expand...

For at least some (but I expect all) warranty replacement packs, when they are ordered for a 2011/2012, Nissan builds the battery with a 22-pin CAN connector, Gen1 BMS, and without the heater plug. In essence, they specially manufacture a pack specifically to be a drop in replacement for a 2011/2012 (except for the mounting brackets and covers). This also appears to include a 2011 style BMS.

This is absolutely not how you or I would solve the problem. We'd simply build an adapter for the harness so we didn't have a special part, but that's not Nissan appears to do.

Your car matches my 2011, which has a warranty replaced pack. When swapping packs, everything was perfectly compatible except for the mounting brackets and plastic covers--because the donor pack was designed for a 2011.

For that reason, it's impossible to do a pack swap of a Gen2 battery from a wrecked Leaf into a 2011/2012, even if the 2011/2012 had a warranty replacement. You need an adapter harness for the CAN plug and a cover for the DC heater plug. The BMS in the Gen2 battery would be incompatible with the 2011/2012 Leaf. Cell swaps, of course, will always work.

I also don't know if the car or BMS will throw any diagnostic codes if you leave the DC heater unplugged, since some (all?) 2011/2012's don't have the DC heater plug.

Evsenhanced says that the battery pairing tool will not work for a Gen2 battery into a Gen1 Leaf:
https://evsenhanced.com/products/battery-translator/
(see in the compatibility matrix where ZEO needs the battery translator tool to work with any battery other than the Gen1 pack)

Dala, please correct me if you find any of the above statements to be wrong.
 
Lothsahn said:
Dala said:
Well spotted that it's a -15! Seems to be a factory battery replacement then, since afaik no 2015 should have this 22-pin (or be without the DC heater plug)
Click to expand...

For at least some (but I expect all) warranty replacement packs, when they are ordered for a 2011/2012, Nissan builds the battery with a 22-pin CAN connector, Gen1 BMS, and without the heater plug. In essence, they specially manufacture a pack specifically to be a drop in replacement for a 2011/2012 (except for the mounting brackets and covers). This also appears to include a 2011 style BMS.

This is absolutely not how you or I would solve the problem. We'd simply build an adapter for the harness so we didn't have a special part, but that's not Nissan appears to do.

Your car matches my 2011, which has a warranty replaced pack. When swapping packs, everything was perfectly compatible except for the mounting brackets and plastic covers--because the donor pack was designed for a 2011.

For that reason, it's impossible to do a pack swap of a Gen2 battery from a wrecked Leaf into a 2011/2012, even if the 2011/2012 had a warranty replacement. You need an adapter harness for the CAN plug and a cover for the DC heater plug. The BMS in the Gen2 battery would be incompatible with the 2011/2012 Leaf. Cell swaps, of course, will always work.

I also don't know if the car or BMS will throw any diagnostic codes if you leave the DC heater unplugged, since some (all?) 2011/2012's don't have the DC heater plug.

Evsenhanced says that the battery pairing tool will not work for a Gen2 battery into a Gen1 Leaf:
https://evsenhanced.com/products/battery-translator/
(see in the compatibility matrix where ZEO needs the battery translator tool to work with any battery other than the Gen1 pack)

Dala, please correct me if you find any of the above statements to be wrong.
Click to expand...

I have 3d-printed an adapter for 22->36pin. This is not yet a version I would feel comfortable sharing (not watertight), but it will be OK for short term testing. The customer will eventually get a 2012 battery pack installed to make for a cheap repair.

"The BMS in the Gen2 battery would be incompatible with the 2011/2012 Leaf. " This is true, since a few messages are repeated too often, and a few are not present on the old BMS. Luckily I can fix this with a Muxsan CAN bridge by changing frame size, content and black/whitelisting messages.

We will see about the DC Heater plug if it throws any DTCs

The EVs Enhaced Battery Pairing Tool will be of no help here. I will rely entirely on custom code for this one.
 
Dala said:
Lothsahn said:
Dala said:
Well spotted that it's a -15! Seems to be a factory battery replacement then, since afaik no 2015 should have this 22-pin (or be without the DC heater plug)
Click to expand...

For at least some (but I expect all) warranty replacement packs, when they are ordered for a 2011/2012, Nissan builds the battery with a 22-pin CAN connector, Gen1 BMS, and without the heater plug. In essence, they specially manufacture a pack specifically to be a drop in replacement for a 2011/2012 (except for the mounting brackets and covers). This also appears to include a 2011 style BMS.

This is absolutely not how you or I would solve the problem. We'd simply build an adapter for the harness so we didn't have a special part, but that's not Nissan appears to do.

Your car matches my 2011, which has a warranty replaced pack. When swapping packs, everything was perfectly compatible except for the mounting brackets and plastic covers--because the donor pack was designed for a 2011.

For that reason, it's impossible to do a pack swap of a Gen2 battery from a wrecked Leaf into a 2011/2012, even if the 2011/2012 had a
warranty replacement. You need an adapter harness for the CAN plug and a cover for the DC heater plug. The BMS in the Gen2 battery would be incompatible with the 2011/2012 Leaf. Cell swaps, of course, will always work.

I also don't know if the car or BMS will throw any diagnostic codes if you leave the DC heater unplugged, since some (all?) 2011/2012's don't have the DC heater plug.

Evsenhanced says that the battery pairing tool will not work for a Gen2 battery into a Gen1 Leaf:
https://evsenhanced.com/products/battery-translator/
(see in the compatibility matrix where ZEO needs the battery translator tool to work with any battery other than the Gen1 pack)

Dala, please correct me if you find any of the above statements to be wrong.
Click to expand...

I have 3d-printed an adapter for 22->36pin. This is not yet a version I would feel comfortable sharing (not watertight), but it will be OK for short term testing. The customer will eventually get a 2012 battery pack installed to make for a cheap repair.

"The BMS in the Gen2 battery would be incompatible with the 2011/2012 Leaf. " This is true, since a few messages are repeated too often, and a few are not present on the old BMS. Luckily I can fix this with a Muxsan CAN bridge by changing frame size, content and black/whitelisting messages.

We will see about the DC Heater plug if it throws any DTCs

The EVs Enhaced Battery Pairing Tool will be of no help here. I will rely entirely on custom code for this one.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick answer and detailed facts! I can confirm that the EVs Enhanced Battery Pairing tool worked perfectly fine to move both an original and warranty replacement pack between 2011's. If the BMS and cells in this pack can be salvaged, you won't need a Muxsan CAN bridge for installation into a 2011/2012 at all. Once the pairing tool has cleared the DTC code, the car will operate with only OEM hardware.
 
The raw CAN data suggests that battery voltage is 126V. This would indicate a cell voltage of 1.32V! (Normally 3.0 -> 4.2V) They must be hurting for sure, will open the pack tonight and poke it with a multimeter.
 
Dala said:
The raw CAN data suggests that battery voltage is 126V. This would indicate a cell voltage of 1.32V! (Normally 3.0 -> 4.2V) They must be hurting for sure, will open the pack tonight and poke it with a multimeter.
Click to expand...

Oh dear. That's not good. Here's hoping most of the cells are still good.
 
I started cracking the battery open, but WATER started coming out of it. There was also a strange smell, so I aborted the mission and dragged the pack out of the workshop. I value my health so you won't get any pics of the inside, sadly.

Now I will let the shop vent, clean it up and continue with installing another pack.
 
So I chucked in a newer style battery, used a 22-36pin DIY adapter, and was greeted with the following error codes after starting it up
S27T86i.jpg


So I think I'm gonna leave the car until I get a proper battery for it, and once you pair it atleast the P3102 will go away. But the interlock error still has me a bit perplexed, it wasn't possible to clear it away.

The P3193 is probably due to me using a newer style battery, some of the frames don't contain the right data. Since the customer wont be getting this battery, I won't be installing any CAN bridges and correcting this.

Still its way less codes than originally, so I think with a properly paired Gen1 battery there is hope. To be continued after 1½week.
 

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