GaleHawkins
Posts: 497
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:00 am

johnlocke wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:35 pm
June 6, 2021 update. 279 GID's, SOH=76.73%, Hx=49.79%. 87863 total miles, 42934 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1783 l2 total, 902 on new battery. Little late reporting this month and I'm still driving less than 1000 mi/month. That third battery is looking less and less likely. I'm just waiting to see if Congress can get it's act together and pass a new EV incentive. I'm looking more and more at the Y these days even with the price increases. I'd like to do this before the end of the year and that limits my choices.
After the Model Y test drive I really want one but the math doesn't work out just yet so we are hoping to get our 2016 Leaf back on the road since it only has 37K miles on it and the new 40 kWh battery. We need a daily driver for another 3 years.

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 6362
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:15 am

My situation is different -- I'm just a crappy driver. :lol:

Buy yeah -- I've learned to appreciate camera views in the front display. The Tesla lets me put the two side, and rear camera on the display while I am driving. This gives me a lot more confidence when I merge into another lane and I don't drift from turning my head. And parking is a breeze.

That is one heck of a story. Thanks for sharing, and be well.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

mn4az
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:24 pm
Location: Prior Lake, MN

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:22 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:33 am
mn4az wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:48 pm
GaleHawkins wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:01 pm
How do you see your odds of still being in Warranty at the loss of the 4th bar?
So long as we don't have another pandemic and the bars drop every 11k miles like happened between my 1st and 2nd... really good (>90% odds).

Since the software update (done June 21, 2018) we've driven 29222 miles and my SOH is dropping 2.39% every 5K miles. At that rate we should drop the 4th bar at around 82K miles. This means we have to drive it ~21k miles in 34 months (617 miles/month).

Time will tell and I'll keep updating my thread with every bar drop.
If the car lives its life in the same climate, degradation is much more a function of time and not miles driven.
You LEAF battery has degraded ~ 22% since new. The warranty kicks in around 36% degradation.

So e.g. if the car is 5 years old since manufacture, you can expect to hit 36% degradation at 36/(22/5) = 8. 18 years.
Just as Nissan intended. FWIW, Nissan thinks that degradation slows down over time. That has been true in my car. So your chance of winning the battery warranty does not look good to me.
Car has been in same climate (Minnesota) it's entire life as I am the original owner. Your theory may be true, but I'll put out there the following data points to consider:

BMS update (6/21/2018 | 32643 miles) to first bar loss (10/24/2019 | 50731 miles): 2.28 SOH drop per 5K miles driven
BMS update (6/21/2018 | 32643 miles) to 2nd bar loss (6/2/21 | 61865 miles): 2.39 SOH drop per 5k miles driven

From a miles driven perspective the SOH rate drop per 5k miles driven is increasing.

The pandemic slowed our driving down (like everyone else), but I'm guessing we'll be at about ~10K/year now which, if miles driven has greater impact than time, puts us at the warranty replacement sometime in the 2nd half of CY2023 (we bought car late April '16).

Time will tell... I'm taking a LeafSpy measurement every 3 months to see how SOH looks. I'll keep updating the thread as I lose bars or if people are interested in the quarterly SOH numbers I can update at that time as well.

johnlocke
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:04 pm

GaleHawkins wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:00 am
johnlocke wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:35 pm
June 6, 2021 update. 279 GID's, SOH=76.73%, Hx=49.79%. 87863 total miles, 42934 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1783 l2 total, 902 on new battery. Little late reporting this month and I'm still driving less than 1000 mi/month. That third battery is looking less and less likely. I'm just waiting to see if Congress can get it's act together and pass a new EV incentive. I'm looking more and more at the Y these days even with the price increases. I'd like to do this before the end of the year and that limits my choices.
After the Model Y test drive I really want one but the math doesn't work out just yet so we are hoping to get our 2016 Leaf back on the road since it only has 37K miles on it and the new 40 kWh battery. We need a daily driver for another 3 years.
The only reason the math works for me is that if I buy a Y I can expect to drive it for 10-15 years. Can't say that about any other car I can think of. A pick up truck maybe but the gas would kill me (and I've still got my 2005 Tundra with 48,000 miles on it). Cybertruck looks to be just too big for a daily driver. I usually get about 8-10 years out of a new car before the repairs start to pile up and the electronics are now getting too complicated to work on myself anyway. I'd still like to wait for the rebate but I'll need to buy something sooner or later. Since I have 18KW of PV now (Installed 5KW just for the Leaf), Electric seems the only real option. You could say I'm fusion powered.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

joeriv
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: Fairfield County CT

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:48 am

Coming up on four years with my Leaf 30 - here’s where it stands:

SOH 90.7%
Hx 75.0
AHr 72.1
ODO 12,861

Always been garaged and pretty much my local driver. It’s never seen more than 6 temp bars and the garage is 10-15F cooler in the Summer. My odds of getting a 40 KWhr battery under warranty are about nil, unfortunately. I expect I’ll lose one bar in 2-3 years, so overall pleased.

Considering I’ve spent $0 on maintenance, it’s been the cheapest car to run I’ve ever had and no problem starting in any weather.
2017 Leaf S with QC, JUN mfg date

GaleHawkins
Posts: 497
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:41 pm

Joe thanks for sharing your awesome Battery stats. Clearly CT is a state that keeps a Leaf battery happy.

Our 2016 SL Battery was just below 65% in November 2019 at 25K miles 5 weeks after I bought it from St Louis Missouri Nissan dealership that leased it new.

What charger and charing practices if any do you follow?

I am now fully charging after every trip (typically 30+ miles) using 240 volts to give max 6.6 amp rate.

High temps we know are bad for our battery pack. It does take longer for the 40 kWh Battery to chill out after a full charge.

joeriv
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: Fairfield County CT

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:40 pm

I purchased my first Leaf in 2013 and at the time, the charging options were more limited than today. I decided to buy the Nissan Panasonic unit that you usually see at Nissan dealers - it’s bulletproof and has never given me any problems. My friend is an electrician and he installed it gratis, so the total cost was very reasonable (plus at the time I did get a tax incentive for the charger).

The purchase incentives for the 2017 were so overwhelming (due to the model change) I decided to sell my 2013 and buy the 2017.

I rarely charge to 100%, only unless I need the range for a longer trip. I keep the battery between 40-80% charge - it’s never been below 20%. I have the fast charge port but have only used that maybe 20 times.
2017 Leaf S with QC, JUN mfg date

cwerdna
Posts: 12111
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:10 pm

joeriv wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:40 pm
I purchased my first Leaf in 2013 and at the time, the charging options were more limited than today. I decided to buy the Nissan Panasonic unit that you usually see at Nissan dealers - it’s bulletproof and has never given me any problems. My friend is an electrician and he installed it gratis, so the total cost was very reasonable (plus at the time I did get a tax incentive for the charger).
You talking about the Aerovironment unit at https://www.plugincars.com/curious-what ... 06524.html? AV sold their EV charging biz to Webasto (https://investor.avinc.com/news-release ... g-and-test). They've also been clearing out their old stock w/various different versions.

https://store.evsolutions.com/mobile/ev ... s-c54.aspx is what's left. There was more selection when I 1st learned of it at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/webas ... ale.38075/.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

joeriv
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:33 pm
Location: Fairfield County CT

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:14 pm

Yes - AeroVironment - it’s the plug-in version so I can take it with me if I move.
2017 Leaf S with QC, JUN mfg date

cwerdna
Posts: 12111
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:21 pm

AFAIK, those round Aerovironment L2 EVSEs were theirs and had no Panasonic involvement.

The L1 and L1/L2 EVSEs shipping w/Leafs are Panasonic. I've seen pics of versions shipping in other markets and they still seem to be Panasonic.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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