2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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kfckrew said:
Down 5 Bars :shock:
No BMS Firmware update yet
You have to get the firmware updated to be eligible for battery replacement under warranty
Once the update is done, loss of FOUR capacity bars is enough for battery replacement so long as the car is under 8 years on the road and has less than 100k miles.
 
Update on my 2017 SV:
AHr: 63.36
SOH: 79.72%
Hx: 54.90%
odo=30,102
QC=51
L1/L2=1647 (inflated by previously using the charge timer)

Post from Sep 2020
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606&p=589842#p589842

AHr: 69.93
SOH: 87.99%
Hx: 67.44%
odo=25,044
QC=47
L1/L2=1381 (inflated by using the charge timer)

We really felt the range reduction last winter, to the extent that we bought a gasser to supplement :x I decided that I'd rather shoot for the 40 kWh pack replacement than give Nissan $30k or whatever for a Leaf+.

On the topic of warranty replacement, I've shifted my charging regimen to fully charging the pack more of the time. Do I need to be concerned about that for a potential warranty claim? Is there some criteria with regard to battery charging/treatment that can lead to Nissan denying a claim?
 
Goodbar said:
On the topic of warranty replacement, I've shifted my charging regimen to fully charging the pack more of the time. Do I need to be concerned about that for a potential warranty claim? Is there some criteria with regard to battery charging/treatment that can lead to Nissan denying a claim?

I've not seen anyone in this thread complain about a warranty being denied for charging to 100% SOC all the time.
 
Goodbar said:
Update on my 2017 SV:
AHr: 63.36
SOH: 79.72%
Hx: 54.90%
odo=30,102
QC=51
L1/L2=1647 (inflated by previously using the charge timer)

Post from Sep 2020
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606&p=589842#p589842

AHr: 69.93
SOH: 87.99%
Hx: 67.44%
odo=25,044
QC=47
L1/L2=1381 (inflated by using the charge timer)

We really felt the range reduction last winter, to the extent that we bought a gasser to supplement :x I decided that I'd rather shoot for the 40 kWh pack replacement than give Nissan $30k or whatever for a Leaf+.

On the topic of warranty replacement, I've shifted my charging regimen to fully charging the pack more of the time. Do I need to be concerned about that for a potential warranty claim? Is there some criteria with regard to battery charging/treatment that can lead to Nissan denying a claim?
Since the Leaf doesn't have a charge limiter function built in and Nissan suggests plugging in for overnight charging, they can't complain if you charge to 100% every night. It might not be good for the battery but Nissan has never said that you shouldn't do it. In truth, fully charging the battery overnight then driving it the next day probably doesn't do much if any harm. Charging to 100% and leaving it sit for days on end fully charged might damage the battery though. You've still got 4years and 70,000 mile left on the warranty. Just keep driving and wait for the replacement when the battery loses that fourth bar.
 
Update. I picked up my '22 Leaf SV+ last night. It replaces my totaled '16. Hopefully the 60KWH battery holds up a lot better than the 30KWH. Range anxiety is pretty much gone. I'm expecting 160K-200K mi. out of the new battery. Since I plan on only using it locally, rapid charging isn't an issue and even 40KWH exceeds my daily needs by a wide margin. With the rebates available, new seemed a better option then used and the Leaf was only EV I could get in a reasonable timeframe.
 
johnlocke said:
Update. I picked up my '22 Leaf SV+ last night. It replaces my totaled '16. Hopefully the 60KWH battery holds up a lot better than the 30KWH. Range anxiety is pretty much gone. I'm expecting 160K-200K mi. out of the new battery. Since I plan on only using it locally, rapid charging isn't an issue and even 40KWH exceeds my daily needs by a wide margin. With the rebates available, new seemed a better option then used and the Leaf was only EV I could get in a reasonable timeframe.

It will, but don't get too caught up in the LeafSpy readings. The rapid drop from the 100% SOH down to the mid 90s SOH, the range has remained the same on mine, even the kWh readings have remained the same. My wife has a 2018, 3.5 years old and her SOH is still in the 92.x% range, still getting the 150 mile range on hers and she does not really do much to take care of the battery like we would. Coming from the 30 kWh battery, these (40/62) battery chemistry appear to be a lot better (coming from the 24 kWh myself). Unless you are trying to destroy the battery on purpose like this guy => https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25773&start=1250 I think you will be happy with the results. :D
 
knightmb said:
johnlocke said:
Update. I picked up my '22 Leaf SV+ last night. It replaces my totaled '16. Hopefully the 60KWH battery holds up a lot better than the 30KWH. Range anxiety is pretty much gone. I'm expecting 160K-200K mi. out of the new battery. Since I plan on only using it locally, rapid charging isn't an issue and even 40KWH exceeds my daily needs by a wide margin. With the rebates available, new seemed a better option then used and the Leaf was only EV I could get in a reasonable timeframe.

It will, but don't get too caught up in the LeafSpy readings. The rapid drop from the 100% SOH down to the mid 90s SOH, the range has remained the same on mine, even the kWh readings have remained the same. My wife has a 2018, 3.5 years old and her SOH is still in the 92.x% range, still getting the 150 mile range on hers and she does not really do much to take care of the battery like we would. Coming from the 30 kWh battery, these (40/62) battery chemistry appear to be a lot better (coming from the 24 kWh myself). Unless you are trying to destroy the battery on purpose like this guy => https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25773&start=1250 I think you will be happy with the results. :D

Curious about the durability of the new battery. How many miles do you have on the 2018 leaf? And how's the weather it's been parked under?
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Curious about the durability of the new battery. How many miles do you have on the 2018 leaf? And how's the weather it's been parked under?

Wife has +33,000 miles, sits outside, no garage or car port to cover it, the weather here in TN ranges from +100F to 10F during the seasons. I have seen her and my battery sit at 100F before driving because of the outside temperatures during noon for example, the highest I've seen her battery temperature get is 115F during those 100F days, she of course runs the AC and sets the temperature to something like 62F :roll: even though I've told her that's a cabin temperature, not the temperature of the actual air coming out of the vents.

Half-way down this page is a screen-shot of her battery stats from a few weeks ago: https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25773&start=1210

Mine is a 2020 bought this year, so probably too "new" to really say anything about it just yet.
 
The 2018+ chemistry does not seem to be impacted by temps, even up to 50C.

It also seems like cars driven more do better than the lightly driven cars. My 2019 SV+ has only 91.4% SoH and 16k miles, below your 18 40 Leaf with 2x the miles in a colder climate.
 
The 2018+ chemistry does not seem to be impacted by temps, even up to 50C.

No, it seems like they are more like the Lizard packs, in that they are only affected by high ambient temps, and sustained high pack temps. AFAIK, all of the few Gen IIs to lose a capacity bar are either in Hot climates, or get DC Fast Charged a LOT, or both.
 
I'm not sure exactly when I lost it earlier this year, but i finally lost my 2nd bar on my 2016 Leaf SL (purchased 2017). I think it was around the 42k mark i noticed it gone. When i first got it i charged almost exclusively with a TurboCord from AV but since moving it's been a mix of Level 1 and Level 2 at different public stations with more QC thrown in the mix. I'm hoping that i might get a battery replacement under warranty and get a 40kwh battery but it seems like I'm tracking right along the expected degradation curve without having done anything special. It's mildly disappointing since I could probably keep the car for 25 years if I got the replacement under warranty. As it is now I'll probably try to trade it in somewhere for a different EV around 2026 or so.
 
johnlocke said:
Aug 5, 2021 update. 277 GID's, SOH=76.34%, Hx=49.05%. 89650 total miles, 44721 miles on new battery, 149 L3 total, 35 on new battery, 1836 l2 total, 962 on new battery. Little late reporting this month and I'm driving about 1000 mi/month. Pricing on the Y keeps increasing bit by bit. Maybe if Giga Texas gets rolling with the mega castings for front and rear frames, we might see a price drop along with shorter delivery timeframes.

I have started looking at the Aptera again. It's not in production yet but it would solve several problems for me. The solar panels on board would substantially reduce my SDG&E bill since Aptera would partially recharge during the day and it's much more efficient to begin with. I think I could save about 4000 KWH annually compared to the Leaf. That would mean that I wouldn't need to install any more panels to zero out SDG&E. Since it needs to be parked in the sun, that frees up garage space for a shop. I do wonder about only two seats but most of what I do is by myself or with only one passenger. I still have an Outback that we use for family outings anyway and a Tundra that I use as a farm truck. Cost wise, If the EV rebate ever gets passed, I could be under $20K out the door. Nothing else I've looked at has enough advantages to beat a Y. The ID4 is a contender but it's not much cheaper than a 3+ and I have to wonder about VW's business practices. It currently has rebates available that Tesla doesn't but that could change.

I'd like to wait for 6 mo. or a year but battery degradation is forcing me to charge up out in town a couple of times a week now. I don't know if I can live with the battery problems for that long. A 40KWH replacement under warranty doesn't appear to be in the cards and I'm not going to spend $10K on a battery swap. I'd buy another Leaf instead first but I'd rather buy something else with a proper BMS and active cooling of the battery.

Sorry about your car and will miss your battery reports.

It was a year ago when our 2016 SL got totalled due a guy running a red light. The repair quote was $24,000. Body work is done and we are to the dash, air bags and seatbelts. Insurance paid me $12K but that was 12 months ago before car prices jumped so much. Our mint inside and out 2015 SV parts car was not cheap but worth the money.

Tuesday when robbing the seatbelts my son found a rodent nest under the carpet under the driver's seat. When it warms up this weekend will clean it out to see if we can find any cut wiring that prevents us from seeing the battery or charging it.

Good to know a connected 12v battery when parked does decrease traction battery State Of Health reading.

I think the new 40 kWh battery installed in Feb 2020 was like 99.7 SOH and on 7 Nov 2020 when wrecked after 12K miles SOH was 96.08. 1 Nov 2021 SOH was 95.71 and driven 13 miles. Normal SOH is .01 per day when parked with battery connected. Yesterday I installed a nice blade battery disconnect. Over the last year the battery actually was connected probably 30 to 40 days out of the year when we was doing things with it.

How/why this occurs I just don't know but it is good to know in my view.
 
awhile said:
One year update.
One year since I received new 40 kWh replacement battery for my 2016 Leaf SV.

According to LeafSpy Pro,
I can charge to: 37.5 kWh
AHr = 110.48
SOH = 95.7%
GIDS = 484
Hx = 110.58%

Odometer 77k miles. I added 6k miles in one year since battery

Thanks for that new 40 kWh report.
 
johnlocke said:
Geico totaled my Leaf yesterday. I expect the check in a few days. I've got a reservation in on an SL+. Given the current market for used cars, I plan on buying a new SL+ rather than trying to replace my old Leaf. At $16K for a '16 leaf and $20K for an '18 Leaf with the 40KWH battery VS $29K after rebates on a new 60KWH SL+, I think it makes more sense to buy new and get the 8 yr. battery warranty that comes with it. The rebates tip the scales to the Leaf especially since the wait for a Tesla is up to 6 months now.

That sounds like a plan. If our 2016 SL with 37K miles had not had the new 40 kWh battery I may have gone that route.
 
GaleHawkins said:
johnlocke said:
Geico totaled my Leaf yesterday. I expect the check in a few days. I've got a reservation in on an SL+. Given the current market for used cars, I plan on buying a new SL+ rather than trying to replace my old Leaf. At $16K for a '16 leaf and $20K for an '18 Leaf with the 40KWH battery VS $29K after rebates on a new 60KWH SL+, I think it makes more sense to buy new and get the 8 yr. battery warranty that comes with it. The rebates tip the scales to the Leaf especially since the wait for a Tesla is up to 6 months now.

That sounds like a plan. If our 2016 SL with 37K miles had not had the new 40 kWh battery I may have gone that route.
I ended up with a 2022 SV+. After the State and Federal rebates and the $13K Geico gave me, my net cost will be about $18K. I have to wait for the rebates of course. I had the cash to pay for the car but Nissan offered 0% financing so I took it and put the cash in the market instead of paying cash. Paid $7500 down and $560/mo for 60 months. After 60 mo. I'll have paid Nissan $41K but I'll still have the $30K in stocks plus the 9.5K in rebates and another $13K in dividends from the stock that I bought instead. Also any gain from stock appreciation. I end up making $12K more than I paid for the car after 5 years. I actually get paid to drive a new car. After the dividends and rebates are accounted for, It will have cost me about $6K to upgrade to the new car. It will take 5 years to do and I have to hope the market doesn't crash in the meantime.
 
status update: My Auri got her new battery today, under warranty. She lost her 4th capacity bar just over a month ago. About 23k miles on her to date (I live really close to work). The replacement process was painless. I got to keep Auri until the new battery arrived at the dealership. The paperwork says she got a 40kw battery, which I believe (since the guess-o-meter has never been that high for me before).
 
The "Down 4 Bars" sweepstakes is on!

AHr 52.41
SOH 65.94%
383.00V
38,626 mi.
15 QCs & 1409 L1/L2s

Guess the date, mileage, and SOH readings that will appear on my LEAFspy when I pop my 30 kWh 2016 SV's cherry and you win...
A year's supply of belly button lint from Amana! :lol:

(What is the typical SOH at 4th bar loss, anyway?)
 
mn4az said:
Your 3rd bar is about to drop. Should happen at 72.5% SOH, the fourth will go at 66.25% SOH.

I'm already down to 65.87% SOH and haven't lost my 4th... they should have replaced my battery about 8 months ago because of bad cells and it took me no fewer than SIX trips to the dealer to work it out. <smdh>

What's the lowest anyone's heard for SOH before #4 drops?
 
RRLeafEV said:
mn4az said:
Your 3rd bar is about to drop. Should happen at 72.5% SOH, the fourth will go at 66.25% SOH.

I'm already down to 65.87% SOH and haven't lost my 4th... they should have replaced my battery about 8 months ago because of bad cells and it took me no fewer than SIX trips to the dealer to work it out. <smdh>

What's the lowest anyone's heard for SOH before #4 drops?

fergy126 lost the fourth bar at 64.29% almost a year ago: https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606&p=594334&hilit=4th+bar+soh#p594334
 
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