new owner did i buy a lemon?

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jani

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2021
Messages
10
hihi

so sorry im a bit frustrated! I finally bought a 2013 leaf at what i thought was a good deal. 11 battery bars, less then 100,000 km, SOH 84%. Drove her home on wednesday, it was a 200km drive, so i stopped twice to charge her. The old owner only used a granny charger, first charge up to 80% with a l3 charger was totally fine. The second time i charged was in my home town, as i was at 22% and i knew when i got home the kids would want a ride. So I charged la dee dah and when i went to leave, hit the brake, start button and got the message "when parked apply parking brake"- but the parking brake was on. Car would NOT go out of park into gear. Turned her off and released and reapplied the parking brake- no change. So the car was towed to my closest nissan dealer, they said it was the parking acuator relay and that it was repared, i got the car back yesterday. I did ask them to check the 12v battery, as the posts looked pretty mucky and i thought that may have something to do with it, they said the battery was fine and they just cleaned the corrosion exudate off the posts.

OK so charged her back to 80% overnight on l1 at home as my L2 set up has not arrived yet. No problems getting to work, coming home, running kids around... until drop off at a friends house, when i went to restart the car it said "key is not detected" even though the key was in the same place, the little tray infront of the shifter. So i checked the fob was working by locking and unlocking the doors, voila car started. Drove to my next destination, parked on the driveway on a hill so applied parking brake. SAME ERROR MESSAGE- 'when parked apply parking brake"

Dont know if it is important to mention, but i did have an obdII plugged in for leaf spy, a burner phone plugged into the usb port for charging as well is my usual phone charging after work on the cigarette lighter port thingy with an adaptor.

As i live in quebec, i have 30 days to return the car for replacement or my money back.

It is my dream car, have any of you heard of these problems and know what i should tell the dealer to do to fix it or is the car a lemon? i am a single mom with 2 kids and i really need a safe and reliable car. So far, I am happy all times she has refused to start she has been parked.

TIA
 
Given the different error messages and the general circumstances, it is very likely the 12 volt battery. The dealership probably just checked the voltage at the time, instead of doing a load test. The next thing you should do is get a new 12 volt accessory battery - AGM type* if possible - and make sure that the new battery is fully charged either before installation or immediately afterwards, because Leafs aren't good at topping off their accessory batteries. You can have this done at an auto parts store, which will also have AGM type lead acid batteries. You may also want to pick up an inexpensive but "smart" 12 volt battery maintainer**, to both top off the new battery and keep it topped off regularly. The size for the battery is "51R" and the "R" must be there or the cables won't fit.

* "AGM" refers to "absorbed glass mat" which means some fiberglass matting is in with the electrolyte, to help stop sulfate crystals from forming. Leafs seem to do better with AGM batteries, as well as the much more expensive lithium 12 volt batteries, than with the little flooded cell starting batteries they come with.

** Here is an example, one that I use: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W46BX31/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
I agree with LeftieBiker--the intermittent errors and failure to start conditions are common symptoms of a weak/failing 12V battery. There are several threads on this site related to 12V batteries and the LEAF 12V charging algorithms. I have never needed to use an external 12V charger on any of my LEAFs because my use pattern keeps them adequately charged, but others recommend periodic charging with an external charger. When I replaced the batteries in my 2011 and 2015, I installed the new 12V AGM batteries in the evening and then charged the cars overnight so that the 12V batteries received good initial charges while the traction batteries were charging. I use and recommend the Optima Yellow Top (deep cycle) battery in size 51R. There are several manufacturers that make high-quality AGM batteries that will fit the LEAF, but I have always had good service from Optima batteries in my vehicles (red top starting batteries for my Jeeps and yellow top deep cycle batteries for the LEAFs) in my hot desert climate. I am still on the OEM battery in the 2019, but will replace it at the first sign of weakness to avoid the inconvenience of a failing battery.

The Bluetooth adapter in the OBDII port will draw a little power while parked, but should not cause the errors you are seeing. I keep mine plugged in all the time except when I park for extended time at the airport or my office. The Bluetooth adapter and the LEAF Spy application can interfere with the automatic (periodic) charging of the 12V battery when parked so it is best to unplug the adapter if the car will sit for more than a couple days.
 
THANK YOU i kind of wondered if it may have been that muckly looking costco battery and asked the dealer about it the first time but he gave me the impression it was fine because i specifically said is it good for cold start in winter (it gets really cold here). then again he was paying for the repairs. So these cars are generally sound if the batteries are both good?

thanks again,

jani
 
Thank you so much gentlemen! The first thing i asked my local dealer about when the car was first towed was the 12V just because when i looked at it the posts were caked with yellow powdery corrosion a good 1/3" thick and i did note its a costco battery- in my experience of quebec winters, a good cheaper battery for only about 3 seasons. My late father bless him was a car boat and plane buff- well anything that moved really- and he nailed it into me to never skimp on a cars brakes tires battery or oil. Ive followed that advice for nearly 30 years and drive my cars until they are ready for recycling, often well over 800,000km and they may sound like tractors but they never stop or fail so i take that advice as golden. As I was using lights, heated cabin for a few minutes at the start of the drive, had the radio on for the kids, charging 2 phone and the obd- and had driven only 57km yesterday with 7 stop and starts (why an electric car makes total sense for me, that is a typical day of running kids around in smallville here) it makes sense that funny looking tiny battery that looks to me like it belongs in a boat needs to work hard with my needs. I will replace the 12v with the best quality one i can find, charge it fully first thanks for that tip- and try and drive as much as possible the next week to be sure that really is the problem while i still have time to return the car.

Car has new brakes and im just waiting for the fancy crossclimate tires to go on sale- so all dads boxes are going to be checked before winter- save for the dirty polluting oil. yipee!

in general, these are reliable used cars if properly looked after?

thanks again!
 
Yes, the two batteries, as you put it, are the main sources of problems in the '13 and up Leafs. The resistance heater can have issues as well, but that isn't as common. If the Leaf is an S then there is just the resistance heater. If it's an SV or SL then there is also a heat pump, to increase range (by reducing heating power consumption) in milder Winter temps.
 
An easy place to start is the 12v battery, but OP should also pull the codes using LEAFSpy.
And put in a new battery into the Fob

Fair chance that solves the issues.
If not, then perhaps the gear shifter or a parking brake sensor.
 
An easy place to start is the 12v battery, but OP should also pull the codes using LEAFSpy.
And put in a new battery into the Fob

Fair chance that solves the issues.
If not, then perhaps the gear shifter or a parking brake sensor.
 
ok argh got car towed to my house load tester showed 12v battery at 6v then charged it up to almost 15 still got the parking brake error code so ran leafspy dtc codes got

B2562 0008 BCM low voltage BCS-69
>P3178 000B EV/HEV ECU Activation Err EVC-245
P3180 000A EV/HEV HV Battery System EVC-249
>P3182 000B EV/HEV HV Battery System EVC-249
>P317B 000B EV/HEV Motor System EVC- 247
>P317E 000B EV/HEV Battery System EVC-249
Ok None----> IPDM E/R
Ok None---> VSP

Now it appears car won't charge main battery either and it is beeping at me regular can't turn it off so that 12v will drain again, and gives a new error code every restart so far i have caught the key fob low battery, the parking brake error and some engine error i can't remember the message exactly that said take car to dealer. Point is lots of error codes so I wonder if the car is an electrical nightmare.

thanks again

(now actually frustrated!)
 
ok argh got car towed to my house load tester showed 12v battery at 6v then charged it up to almost 15 still got the parking brake error code so ran leafspy dtc codes got

B2562 0008 BCM low voltage BCS-69
>P3178 000B EV/HEV ECU Activation Err EVC-245
P3180 000A EV/HEV HV Battery System EVC-249
>P3182 000B EV/HEV HV Battery System EVC-249
>P317B 000B EV/HEV Motor System EVC- 247
>P317E 000B EV/HEV Battery System EVC-249
Ok None----> IPDM E/R
Ok None---> VSP

Now it appears car won't charge main battery either and it is beeping at me regular can't turn it off so that 12v will drain again, and gives a new error code every restart so far i have caught the key fob low battery, the parking brake error and some engine error i can't remember the message exactly that said take car to dealer. Point is lots of error codes so I wonder if the car is an electrical nightmare.

thanks again

(now actually frustrated!)
 
don't know why but hit the start button a few times without brake pedal down the beeping stopped and like magic the car started charging again, OBDii dongle just to reduce electric load don't know if that made any difference.

me thinks she is a lemon?
 
ok so all those errors can be caused by the 12v battery and its normal that recharging the 12v still won't allow that apply parking brake error to go away so i can start the car to drive it to the shop for a new battery?

thanks

jani
 
Learjet said:
replace 12 volt battery!!! if it showed 6 volts it is gone!!!

This. You may be able to give the battery enough of a 'surface charge' for it to show 12+ volts again, but that voltage collapses back well below 12 volts when you actually put any load at all on the battery.
 
OK so i will have the dealership replace the 12v battery, delete all the error codes and give it another try. I just ordered a new button battery for the key fob on amazon, should be here tomorrow so i can do that bit too. Here there is a consumer protection agency for used cars I will call them tomorrow so the car can be independently assessed after repair to try and see if it has other problems or not.

thanks again,

jani
 
Be warned that many if not most of the coin cell batteries sold on Amazon.com are lousy counterfeits. The local grocery store is a safer place to buy them. If you have a battery tester that will test button cells, use it first.
 
Your 12V battery is history. Pushing the start button several times in succession is sometimes successful in closing the main DC power contactor so the DC-DC converter can supply power to the 12V system (that is how I got home when the 12V battery failed in my 2015). You have LEAF Spy so replace the 12V battery and clear the error codes--no need for the dealer.

Edited to add: One sign of a failing 12V battery is excessive accumulation of corrosion on the terminals and in the vicinity because the electrolyte is being vented to atmosphere (often because one cell becomes weak and the remaining cells have excess voltage while the car is on which then causes the electrolyte to gas and vent).
 
jani said:
OK so i will have the dealership replace the 12v battery, delete all the error codes and give it another try. I just ordered a new button battery for the key fob on amazon, should be here tomorrow so i can do that bit too. Here there is a consumer protection agency for used cars I will call them tomorrow so the car can be independently assessed after repair to try and see if it has other problems or not.

thanks again,

jani

The Leaf *almost* seems like the engineers designed it around a 12 volt lithium battery system as it does terrible with Lead based batteries. My wife and I did a long test of Lead vs. Lithium and after several Lead replacement batteries over the years, she finally came over to the dark side and let me put a 12 volt lithium battery in her Leaf. :lol: Ten years ago, 12 volt lithium auto batteries were expensive, but they seem to have really come down in price now.

The problem with the Lead based batteries is that the technology needs the battery to at full charge at all times, which gas autos can do quite well with the alternator blasting the battery soon after starting the engine. The Leaf, it just kind of lazily charges the Lead, typically only running around 13 volts when powered on. The Lead wants to be +14 volts, so over time, they just don't last. The AGM as others have mentioned do much better as they can tolerate this lower voltage better, but the dealer is just going to throw another Lead Acid battery into it, don't even waste your time with that.

Others here have more experience with the AGM and what types are good to use, I have been sticking with the Lithium based, so just for technical purposes, should you decide to go that route, you need a 12 volt lithium auto that is at least 20 AH in capacity. You can go bigger, but they just cost more and the 20 AH that I've had for so many years have never failed yet no matter the cold or hot weather outside. If you live in a place where the temperature can get below -40 F/C, then AGM or a heated Lithium is what you will want.
 
Just to clarify a little: an AGM battery is a type of lead-acid battery. It's more robust than the flooded cell type (it was originally designed for fighter planes), and a bit more tolerant of being kept at a somewhat lower voltage/state of charge. As I think I mentioned earlier, AGM batteries seem to work better with the Leaf's charging system than do flooded cell batteries.
 
I'm also a fan of AGM for the LEAF.
I was unable to source one locally at a reasonable price so I bought online from remybattery.com back in March. Online does have the disadvantage of losing the return deposit


Intimidator 9A51R Group 51R AGM Battery

SKU: 9A51R

1 $169.50
Subtotal $169.50
Discount (10% Off) -$16.95
Shipping & Handling $36.21
Grand Total $188.76
800-455-7400

Remy Battery
4301 W Lincoln Ave
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53219,
United States
 
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