BlueSL
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:00 pm

Defectors

Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:24 pm

I have two friends who got their Leafs for HOV lane access more than anything else. Today, one is driving a PiP and the other is driving a Volt. Both got out from under their leases but had to pay to do it. Range anxiety and range limitation pushed them out of the Leaf camp after less than a year of ownership.

Enhanced range cannot come soon enough for the Leaf! Even then, it may not be sufficient. Before I heard about Nissan upping the "freeway speed" range to 91+- miles per charge I told myself that I would not lease another one unless it had a range of 100 miles at freeway speeds. I've got 20 months to go.
Now driving: 2011 Blue SL+QC
Reserved 4/23
Ordered 12/4
Delivered 6/7

dandrewk
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 11:16 am
Delivery Date: 19 May 2012
Leaf Number: 018580
Location: San Rafael, CA

Re: Defectors

Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:33 pm

I'm curious as to how ANYBODY can be surprised by "range limitation", let alone have so much "anxiety" as to pay the huge premium to terminate a lease early.

We all appreciate the need for longer ranges, and that WILL come. Really, though, anyone who didn't see the current limitions have only themselves to blame.

ETA - paying ~$35k primarily for an HOV sticker? Wow...

adric22
Posts: 2488
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:40 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 000768
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: Defectors

Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:16 pm

Well, since my wife got the Volt, I've been suggesting to interested people the Volt rather than the Leaf. I still love my Leaf and I'm very happy with it. I have no intention of getting rid of it. But now that you can lease a Volt for basically the same price as a Leaf, I believe the Volt is far better suited to the average American than the Leaf.
2013 Blue Nissan Leaf SV
2012 Summit White Chevy Volt

BlueSL
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:00 pm

Re: Defectors

Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:38 am

dandrewk wrote:I'm curious as to how ANYBODY can be surprised by "range limitation", let alone have so much "anxiety" as to pay the huge premium to terminate a lease early.

* * *

ETA - paying ~$35k primarily for an HOV sticker? Wow...
The car did not cost $35k. It was about $22,500 after incentives. The lease termination cost in both cases was about $1500. There are primarily two kinds of Leaf drivers: (1) true BEV believers and (2) wealthy people with an antipathy for foreign oil who want to get places faster during the work week. My defector friends fall into the latter category, as will most Californians buying the car from this point forward until the range increases dramatically. It's a small market and the August Leaf sale numbers bear that out.
Now driving: 2011 Blue SL+QC
Reserved 4/23
Ordered 12/4
Delivered 6/7

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15554
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Defectors

Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:10 am

i am not surprised that people got paranoid and bailed. EV history is very limited, the negative slant here and elsewhere is abundant.

EVs are portrayed in a worst case scenario by us and there is no benefit of the doubt, not even a smidgen towards thinking that an acceptable solution is right around the corner.

now, normally that is foolish thinking. "around the corner" has a bad rep and very deservedly so. but in the case there is compelling evidence.

large investment by Nissan
research facility located at ground zero
constrained supply of batteries soon to be resolved
very poor exchange rates

i am surprised that anyone has abandoned ship so quickly but at the same time; considering the above, there is no doubt that thousands have been turned off to the EV idea.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
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thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Defectors

Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:15 am

Dave,
we are a nation of people addicted to instant gratification and every whim fulfilled.
The Leaf fails that test for many as a purchase and apparently fails that test for some who bought it, too.

I prefer all E to the Volt solution, but that decision is particular to my current situation; 10 years ago, with a different job and much further from ending a regular commute, there could have been a different answer.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
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ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
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red SL with etec L3
SOLAR POWERED since 2008

adric22
Posts: 2488
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:40 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 000768
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: Defectors

Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:16 am

BlueSL wrote: It's a small market and the August Leaf sale numbers bear that out.
I think the market is much larger than anyone knows. The biggest problem in my experience is that 80% of the public is still unaware that such a vehicle exists. I'm finding people every day who are just finding out about it. Heck, I have been driving my Leaf to work here at the same company for a year and a half. I thought everyone around here already knew about it. When I came in from lunch the other day the only parking spot available was the area by where the smokers stand. A few hours later I went to put something in my car and they were all standing around it gawking at it and speculating. When I approached they started asking me all kinds of questions. I told them "This car has been in the parking lot every day for the last year and a half, how could you not know about it?" They replied "We never really noticed it until you parked it here." And yeah - most of them had no idea it was electric and were totally dumbfounded at the possibility of driving gas-free every day.

So yeah - we have a lot of work to do to educate the public.
2013 Blue Nissan Leaf SV
2012 Summit White Chevy Volt

jackal
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:25 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 001904
Location: San Francisco

Re: Defectors

Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:16 am

dandrewk wrote:ETA - paying ~$35k primarily for an HOV sticker? Wow...
It's more like a lease than upfront 35K..so it is pretty affordable when you consider the possible time saved.
Silver SL with QC
reserved 7/13/10, ordered 1/31/11, delivered 5/26/11
Blink installed 6/14/11
2kW PV w Enphase microinverters
2001 Prius

jackal
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:25 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 001904
Location: San Francisco

Re: Defectors

Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:22 am

BlueSL wrote:I have two friends who got their Leafs for HOV lane access more than anything else. Today, one is driving a PiP and the other is driving a Volt. Both got out from under their leases but had to pay to do it. Range anxiety and range limitation pushed them out of the Leaf camp after less than a year of ownership.
I am pretty sure they got the Leaf because PiP and Volt doesn't have HOV access then. Thus these are not deflectors but people who only care about having HOV. They don't care whether it's ICE or EV. If an ICE is given HOV, they will probably buy it too.

When the green HOV is expired and white HOV is ever extended, these people will flock back to the Leaf again. At that time, their excuse will be 'the leaf has longer range now' and they will be PiP and Volt deflectors. :)
Silver SL with QC
reserved 7/13/10, ordered 1/31/11, delivered 5/26/11
Blink installed 6/14/11
2kW PV w Enphase microinverters
2001 Prius

DoxyLover
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:52 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 9214
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Defectors

Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:33 pm

Confession time.

First, let me say that I am very happy with my Leaf, which I purchased (didn't lease).

However, there was one reason only that I traded in my 2007 Prius to buy the Leaf - car pool lane withdrawal! And if the Prius PIP had carpool access then, I probably would have bought that instead. (I don't think I would have bought a Volt - I hate GM products with a passion! I can be bought but I have my limits :lol: )

Having said that, I have no intention of bailing on the Leaf unless it becomes clear that all Leaf batteries are failing, even in mild climates.
2011 Brilliant Silver Leaf SL
Reserved, quoted and ordered July 11, 2011
Delivered October 16, 2011 (Na. Plug-In Day)

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