Which is the better deal?

I am considering 2 Nissan Leaf's right now:

Option 1:
2015 Nissan Leaf S at the Dealer, 55,000 miles offered at $6950. No accident, 2 previous owners.

Option 2:
2017 Nissan Leaf S Private Party, 70000 miles offered at $9600. Minor accident. Original owner.

I feel like the private party is way overpriced, but wondering what you guys think is the better deal. I am in AZ and private party has no sales tax, if that matters.

It comes down to whether or not you need a 30kwh battery. The 2015 "Lizard" battery is very good, but has likely lost a bar by now - maybe two in AZ. The battery in the '17 may be good and offer substantially more range, but it may also be dropping capacity bars rapidly, on the way to qualifying for a free 40kwh battery. You need LeafSpy Pro and an OBDII port reader like the one in my signature to see the capacity, although the dash display may be enough in this case. If the car reads 12 bars and near 100% capacity (SOH), then it may have had the Battery Management System reset with a firmware update. In that case, actual, capacity will remain unknown for a few months.

I personally wouldn't buy a LEAF for use in AZ.

Having said that, the cheapest LEAF you can find, that still meets your range needs, is perhaps worth considering.

Only buy it with the intention to run it into the ground, as resale value will drop like a stone.

I would hate to have to sell a LEAF in AZ, as there are so few buyers who would understand how badly heat impacts the battery pack. There must be a lot of buyer's remorse...

Is the 2017 gray? It looks like a twin of mine--just a model year newer. It's a plus that the HV battery was replaced about 22k miles ago, and the owner sounds conscientious about maintenance (and experienced with LEAFs).

Another thing to look for on S-trim LEAFs is the presence/absence of quick-charging ability. Those with the QC package are able to rapid-charge using CHAdeMO, and they can also charge twice as quickly on level-2. I wasn't able to determine from the ad if that 2017 has it or not.

If heat degradation is a concern, you might look into a Fiat 500e or Chevy Spark EV. It looks like they are available in your area. They both have active battery cooling and sound incredibly fun to drive (I wouldn't let myself test-drive either of them in fear of bringing one home without a second thought).

Good luck!

For AZ Leafs, it really depends upon battery condition/capacity and daily driving needs. The 2015 battery is the best 24 kWh battery in terms of longevity in our hot climate, but it certainly has lost capacity if it has been in AZ since new. I think both cars are overpriced unless their batteries have been replaced. As others have already noted, the S models need to have the optional charge package to get the DCQC port and 6.6 kW onboard charger. I strongly recommend having the DCQC port and 6.6 kW onboard charger even if you don't plan to use DCQC. Either post more information about your daily driving needs and the cars you are looking at or feel free to PM me if you would like more advice about owning/driving Leafs in our climate.

Someone mentioned the Chevrolet Spark or Fiat 500E as options since they have battery cooling systems, but they were never sold new here so dealer service support is non-existent for the Fiat and may be questionable for the Spark. Chevrolet dealers that sell Bolts (and previously sold Volts) may be able to service/repair Spark EVs.

LeftieBiker said:

You need LeafSpy Pro and an OBDII port reader like the one in my signature to see the capacity, although the dash display may be enough in this case. If the car reads 12 bars and near 100% capacity (SOH), then it may have had the Battery Management System reset with a firmware update. In that case, actual, capacity will remain unknown for a few months.

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OP can get the SOH info using the free version of LeafSpy. (still need to get the ODBII reader)


This is a hard choice without knowing more about the battery degradation (i.e. how many legit bars are left). And the mileage range you ideally want out of the car.
But for reference we paid about$15K out the door from Nissan dealer for our 2017 S (with charge package) last Sept. It had 26K miles, battery SOH at 88% (still 12 bars), and has lived in CT its whole life. Based on the location and mileage I'm guessing the 2017 here has a more degraded battery. You'll have to figure out what kind of range you can get out of it.

az1k said:

I am considering 2 Nissan Leaf's right now:

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Read Lefty's 'before you buy' thread. For now, you don't know the right questions

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies.

As someone guessed correctly, the Leaf S 2017 (70,000 miles) is gray which had its HV battery was replaced about 22k miles ago. It currently also has 10 out of 12 bars and was also in an accident. The owner does sound like he knows his Leafs. I am leaning towards this one:
1) What in your opinion is a fair offer?
2) What other questions should I ask before making an offer?

SageBrush said:

az1k said:

I am considering 2 Nissan Leaf's right now:

Click to expand...

Read Lefty's 'before you buy' thread. For now, you don't know the right questions

Click to expand...

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030

The replaced pack already lost two capacity bars?! Wow--Arizona heat degradation is real!

I don't know...if it continues to lose capacity like that, you might be better off with a 2015 or 2016 24 kWh with the "lizard" pack, as mentioned, or a different model EV.

Around here, a 2016 or 2017 LEAF S 30 kWh with quick-charge package, about 30k miles, no accidents, and all its capacity bars might go for about that same price, but Phoenix does seem to be a tougher market.

I was going to see if I could suggest a different listing, but nothing's jumping out at me. The capacity losses are pretty startling there.

I don't know...if it continues to lose capacity like that, you might be better off with a 2015 or 2016 24 kWh with the "lizard" pack, as mentioned, or a different model EV.

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I was going to write about the incentive to get the 2017 Leaf and hope for a 40kwh replacement, but IIRC the replacement pack only had a one year warranty...tough call. The 2017 still has more range than the 2015, but that could actually get reversed in a couple of years...

If the 2017 S has the 30 kWh battery pack, then the Nissan factory warranty is 8 years or 100,000 miles for both capacity loss (drop to 8 capacity bars) and defects so there is a chance of getting another warranty replacement because it has about 30,000 mile of warranty left. If the car has the DCQC port (and the 6.6 kW onboard charger), then it may be a good choice if 60 miles between charges will meet your needs and you can negotiate a lower price. Since the replacement battery has lost 2 capacity bars in 22k miles, I am assuming it is a 30 kWh battery pack (latest 24 kWh pack first available in 2015 would probably not lose 2 bars in 22k miles unless stored long term at full charge). For reference, realistic range for a car with 24 kWh battery that is down to 8 capacity bars is about 50 miles with normal A/C use so a 30 kWh battery should still be good for 60 miles at 8 capacity bars.

If the 2017 S has the 30 kWh battery pack, then the Nissan factory warranty is 8 years or 100,000 miles for both capacity loss (drop to 8 capacity bars) and defects so there is a chance of getting another warranty replacement because it has about 30,000 mile of warranty left.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, folks, but my understanding is that when you buy a new battery from Nissan you get the full battery warranty, but when they replace one for free under warranty, the warranty on the replacement pack is only one year - no more original battery warranty remains.

LeftieBiker said:

If the 2017 S has the 30 kWh battery pack, then the Nissan factory warranty is 8 years or 100,000 miles for both capacity loss (drop to 8 capacity bars) and defects so there is a chance of getting another warranty replacement because it has about 30,000 mile of warranty left.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, folks, but my understanding is that when you buy a new battery from Nissan you get the full battery warranty, but when they replace one for free under warranty, the warranty on the replacement pack is only one year - no more original battery warranty remains.

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Sorry LeftieBiker, you are wrong this time. If the battery is purchased by the customer, then there is a full new battery warranty (8 years or 100,000 miles) from the time and mileage of installation. If the battery is replaced under warranty, then the battery warranty ends at 8 years after the original in service date or 100,000 miles on the odometer (regardless of how many replacements/repairs are needed). Some replacement parts are given a minimum of 1 year or 12,000 miles of warranty coverage if warranty repairs are completed shortly before the original warranty expires, but it is not clear to me from reading the warranty language in the owner manual if the traction battery would have that minimum 12-month/12,000-mile warranty.

Edited to clarify: The capacity loss portion of the warranty (drop to 8 capacity bars) on 24 kWh battery is only 5 years from in service date or 60,000 miles on odometer. Capacity warranty on 24 kWh purchased replacement battery is 5 years or 60,000 miles from time and mileage of installation. In all cases, the manufacturer defect warranty is 8 years or 100,000 miles.

Sorry LeftieBiker, you are wrong this time. If the battery is purchased by the customer, then there is a full new battery warranty (8 years or 100,000 miles) from the time and mileage of installation. If the battery is replaced under warranty, then the battery warranty ends at 8 years after the original in service date or 100,000 miles on the odometer (regardless of how many replacements/repairs are needed).

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I am very happy to be wrong on this. There was a discussion of this a while back, and my recollection was that it had been put forth that the free warranty replacement batteries had only a one year warranty. Actually, I think I may have it now: if the original warranty is up when the replacement fails, in that case only, I think it's one year. I could be wrong again, though.

So looks like the replacement battery was a 30 kWh.

Two questions:
How likely is Nissan to use a 40K for the next replacement?
What is the likelihood of the 30 K battery losing another 2 bars over the warranty period in the Phoenix heat?

Very likely and moderately to very likely.