Buying a used leaf in 2020

Hi everyone,

I'm in the market for a used leaf. Thanks @LeftieBiker for the awesome write up, it was very helpful! I hope I'm not breaking any rules by creating a new thread but I'd like to get some feedback on purchasing a used leaf in 2020.

I live in a warm climate (Los Angeles) and was hoping to spend around $10k or so. If someone were to try and find the best deal on a used like in the 10-12k range where would you start? Should I look for a 16-17 with 24kwh pack (the whole 30 kwh issue scares me a bit)? Or should I look for a lower usage/high bar 2014-2015? Or a third option would be to spend a bit more and get an 18.

Many thanks to this community in advance :mrgreen:

EVornottoEV said:

Should I look for a 16-17 with 24kwh pack (the whole 30 kwh issue scares me a bit)? Or should I look for a lower usage/high bar 2014-2015? Or a third option would be to spend a bit more and get an 18.

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You can't get a '17 with 24 kWh pack. They're all 30 kWh.

'16 original S was 24. '16 SV and '16 SL are 30 kWh along with https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106593_nissan-leaf-s-quietly-gets-30-kwh-battery-upgrade-higher-price. '16 "S 30" came near the very end of the '16 model year.

The good thing about 30 kWh (and 40 + 62 kWh) is that the capacity warranty is 8 years/100K miles. Need to be down to 8 capacity bars before expiration. 24 kWh packs only have 5 year/60K capacity warranties.

And, unless https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=583638#p583638 somehow changes, if have a 30 kWh car and need a warranty replacement, you should receive a 40 kWh pack as the replacement.

If you come across a '14 and '15 w/the same # of capacity bars/similar capacity, go for the '15 as the lizard pack (on '15) is better.

In your case, living in a hot climate I'd be inclined to suggest a used Volt which has liquid cooling for the battery. True it's range may only be around 40 miles EV but then you have the ICE, good for maybe another 300 miles. Now if you truly want to have nothing to do with an ICE then maybe look for a 30kwh Leaf, as new as you can find in your price range, with a battery as degraded as you can. In your climate, you'd probably have a good chance of getting to 8 bars and getting a 40kwh battery
It's true the Volt can be quite cramped, depending on your build and some were only 4 passenger, I personally like its styling and you can't argue with it's pickup, it was just too cramped for me. I also really disliked it's massive(IMO) center console shifter, much prefer the tiny mouse the Leaf uses or if you have to have a T-shifter on an EV or CVT then stick it on the dash like Honda does on some of its vehicles to get it out of the way.

If a Leaf if the car you want, then go for a 2018 or 2019 Plus. The larger battery will in general wear better and reduce you cycles and stops for charging.

Many of us with Plus models (we have 2 personally) find we can relatively easily make 200 miles on the highway in dry weather as long as we keep it to 70 MPH or less.

There will be lots of 40kwh Leafs coming off lease in 2020. Even with average or higher degradation, the range will never fall below about 90 miles in your climate, because of the battery warranty. Pro Pilot is a nice assist, especially for highway driving, and the extra HP of the gen II is nice.

A 2018+ LEAF would likely cost quite a bit more than your price point, and do research reliability on the 2018+. Consumer Reports indicates drastically lower reliability than the 2015-2017 models.

How much time would the car spend outside? Would you be able to garage it? What is your typical driving like?

If you are especially worried about heat degradation, and want a LEAF, and if a 24 kWh battery would meet your needs, I would look for a 2015-2016 24 kWh version (this is the "lizard" pack).

If your car is likely to spend its days outside, you might consider an EV with active battery cooling, like a Fiat 500e, Chevy Spark EV, Kia Soul EV, Ford e-Focus, VW e-Golf, etc.

I drive a 2016 30 kWh LEAF with no notable degradation, but it is almost always in a garage.

I highly suggest EVing if it fits your lifestyle. Ditching the combustion engine is incredibly nice!

Best wishes!

In your case, I would hunt for a 2016/17 with a 30 kWh pack that's down a couple of bars already. Given your hot climate, there's a good chance you would qualify for a free replacement pack (40 kWh) before the warranty runs out - especially if you are doing frequent DC quick charges in the heat and charging to 100% SOC frequently

alozzy said:

In your case, I would hunt for a 2016/17 with a 30 kWh pack that's down a couple of bars already. Given your hot climate, there's a good chance you would qualify for a free replacement pack (40 kWh) before the warranty runs out - especially if you are doing frequent DC quick charges in the heat and charging to 100% SOC frequently

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Make sure that the bars were lost after the BMS update was performed, although the odds are still good that they would be gone within the warranty period anyway, eventually...

PrairieLEAF said:

A 2018+ LEAF would likely cost quite a bit more than your price point, and do research reliability on the 2018+. Consumer Reports indicates drastically lower reliability than the 2015-2017 models.

How much time would the car spend outside? Would you be able to garage it? What is your typical driving like?

If you are especially worried about heat degradation, and want a LEAF, and if a 24 kWh battery would meet your needs, I would look for a 2015-2016 24 kWh version (this is the "lizard" pack).

If your car is likely to spend its days outside, you might consider an EV with active battery cooling, like a Fiat 500e, Chevy Spark EV, Kia Soul EV, Ford e-Focus, VW e-Golf, etc.

I drive a 2016 30 kWh LEAF with no notable degradation, but it is almost always in a garage.

I highly suggest EVing if it fits your lifestyle. Ditching the combustion engine is incredibly nice!

Best wishes!

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My car would be garaged at home and if I go back to work (uncertain at this time) then it would be outside during work hours. My work says we might eventually go back next year or may be permanent work from home. Let's assume it would be outside during work hours. I drive about 18 miles each way and can charge on both ends.

LeftieBiker said:

alozzy said:

In your case, I would hunt for a 2016/17 with a 30 kWh pack that's down a couple of bars already. Given your hot climate, there's a good chance you would qualify for a free replacement pack (40 kWh) before the warranty runs out - especially if you are doing frequent DC quick charges in the heat and charging to 100% SOC frequently

Click to expand...

Make sure that the bars were lost after the BMS update was performed, although the odds are still good that they would be gone within the warranty period anyway, eventually...

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If I understand correctly BMS update Is an update from Nissan to "fix" the way the estimated remaining battery capacity is shown? Is that accurate? And how can I tell if the update was performed or not? I plan on getting an ODB and Leafspy to use during my hunt.

If I understand correctly BMS update Is an update from Nissan to "fix" the way the estimated remaining battery capacity is shown? Is that accurate? And how can I tell if the update was performed or not? I plan on getting an ODB and Leafspy to use during my hunt.

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You understand correctly. Nissan (along with some of their fans here) hasn't admitted that the problem isn't just the BMS programming error, but there are indeed some 30kwh packs that are in fact degrading rapidly, and these are the ones likely to get replaced with 40kwh batteries from Nissan. Try calling their EV hotline with the VIN to find out if the update has been applied. Otherwise any 30kwh pack now showing all 12 capacity bars is suspect, because the update includes a BMS reset that temporarily restores any lost bars..

LeftieBiker said:

If I understand correctly BMS update Is an update from Nissan to "fix" the way the estimated remaining battery capacity is shown? Is that accurate? And how can I tell if the update was performed or not? I plan on getting an ODB and Leafspy to use during my hunt.

Click to expand...

You understand correctly. Nissan (along with some of their fans here) hasn't admitted that the problem isn't just the BMS programming error, but there are indeed some 30kwh packs that are in fact degrading rapidly, and these are the ones likely to get replaced with 40kwh batteries from Nissan. Try calling their EV hotline with the VIN to find out if the update has been applied. Otherwise any 30kwh pack now showing all 12 capacity bars is suspect, because the update includes a BMS reset that temporarily restores any lost bars..

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Thanks for all the info. This sounds a bit like playing Russian roulette. I'm not sure if I'm up for undertaking this sort of risk if I can't verify if/when the BMS update took place. I may have to expand my search beyond Leafs, but I"m sure the others have issues as well.

Unless you are up for a gamble, trying to win a free battery upgrade, the LEAF isn't a good choice for you. Pick an EV with active thermal management instead, hot climates are like kryptonite for LEAF battery packs.

EVornottoEV said:

Thanks for all the info. This sounds a bit like playing Russian roulette. I'm not sure if I'm up for undertaking this sort of risk if I can't verify if/when the BMS update took place. I may have to expand my search beyond Leafs, but I"m sure the others have issues as well.

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Any Nissan dealer can tell you if and when the BMS update was performed on a particular vehicle.

That sounds like an easy commute for an EV, and you should be in a great location for CA compliance cars coming off lease or otherwise being sold used.

I looked into some other models in that price arena when I was searching. Here are my findings and thoughts:

Ford Focus Electric. This was my first EV crush. It's stylish, comfortable, and well-equipped. Its range is on the short side (76 miles until
the 2017 model year (100 miles)), it's the heaviest of the group and has among the lowest energy efficiency. Its battery pack is located toward the back, reducing trunk space and affecting weight distribution. Level 3 quick charging wasn't available until the 2017 model year.

Kia Soul EV. I briefly considered it for its cargo and passenger space. Pricing is a little high and availability is low. Range is a respectable 93 miles.

Chevy Spark EV. They look a little quirky, but sound like a blast to drive. It was the fastest-accelerating non-Tesla EV to 60 mph for its time, and handles nimbly (an electric "hot-hatch"). They are compact, but have 4 doors and a versatile hatchback with folding rear seats. Level 3 quick-charging was an option (two additional terminals below the round charging plug). Like the base LEAF, level 2 charging is limited to 3.3 kW rather than 6.6 kW. They have the best energy efficiency in their class and have useful and eye-pleasing gauge displays. They have an electronic push-button parking brake and wi-fi but no CD player. The range estimate is 82 miles. Reviewers prefer the feel of the seats on the 1LT trim, but the feel of the steering wheel on the 2LT. Like the Fiat 500e, the Spark EV's tires are not intended to be rotated (wheels/tires are different sizes) and with its brisk performance, owners find themselves frequently replacing the front tires. 2015+ model years are preferred for the better-reputed battery cells from LG Chem. I found the Spark EV to have the highest insurance rates in the class, possibly due to its power numbers.

Fiat 500e. This one is all about style and driving experience. They are little rolling works of art and sound very fun to drive. They are faster to 30 mph than the Spark EV, due to their lower gearing. The range estimate is 84 miles and they can level 2 charge at 6.6 kW. No level 3 quick-charging is available. Although the hatchback and folding rear seats are versatile with cargo, there are only two doors and the rear seat is quite small. The criticized GPS that plugs into the top of the dash was replaced with an in-dash screen for 2016. The powertrain is from Bosch rather than Fiat, theoretically making it the most reliable Fiat product!

Second the easy commute.Why not a 2011 or 2012 with a replacement pac w/11 or 12 bars.Local craigslist,s prices start @4k.I went this route from a forum owner.Very happy with the seats,ride,handling,range,acceleration.Also check cars.com,autotrader,true car,car guru,myev.Try to buy from private owner.Hopefully less bs and better price.

dcdisc said:

Second the easy commute.Why not a 2011 or 2012 with a replacement pac w/11 or 12 bars.Local craigslist,s prices start @4k.I went this route from a forum owner.Very happy with the seats,ride,handling,range,acceleration.Also check cars.com,autotrader,true car,car guru,myev.Try to buy from private owner.Hopefully less bs and better price.

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I have definitely been trying to consider this option as well. No luck so far yet. Locally I’m finding 2011/2012 models with like 6-8 bars and they still want around $5k or more.

If you look for Nissan Leaf Replaced in San Diego Craigslist there's a 2011 with 12 bars for $5K. Otherwise LA only has a salvage one for 5.5K with a replaced battery

Question for anyone, do the new Leafs still have passive cooling for the batteries meaning they could still suffer in hotter climates, such as mine (Los Angeles)?

Seems to be some excellent deals on the new ones and then almost $10k in rebates from feds, state, and utility. I’d get the full $7500 from the feds.

EVornottoEV said:

Question for anyone, do the new Leafs still have passive cooling for the batteries meaning they could still suffer in hotter climates, such as mine (Los Angeles)?

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Indeed...battery cooling is still passive on new LEAFs.

With all the new EVs available in CA, you may want to select one with battery cooling.