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Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:35 pm
by LeftieBiker
I already have a post like that. I'll update it and make sure its' still sticky.

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:22 am
by GaleHawkins
cwerdna wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:24 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Nubo wrote:
Has this been established? I recall Nissan stating that the batteries were tested in Arizona prior to launch.
No, although I can't see how they could have done anything but brief overheat testing in Arizona and not discovered the degradation problem. I remember talk of them doing road testing in Japan. I also remember talk of Ghosn (sp?) overriding any TMS implementation in order to meet release date targets, so maybe at least some of the development engineers were worried about the heat tolerance. I'll make that first bit my opinion.
Nissan has an Arizona Testing Center. Not sure when it was established but https://www.motorauthority.com/news/102 ... test-track allegedly from 2007 already mentions Arizona. https://www.nissanusa.com/about/corpora ... ation.html says
NTCNA has a proving ground facility located on 3,050 acres in Stanfield, Arizona. Arizona's low desert terrain provides NTCNA with an ideal environment to test Nissan vehicles for hot weather, heat durability, engine cooling and air conditioner performance. The NTCNA proving ground also features a 5.7 mile high-speed oval and four individual road courses designed to test vehicle durability, reliability, and ride comfort.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... gton-Hills allegedly from 2005 also mentions the Arizona Test Center at the bottom.

Before Leaf was launched, Nissan reps over and over, including Carlos Ghosn said the battery would be leased. So, perhaps they didn't care that much about long term degradation and needed to get to market by a certain time?

https://charlierose.com/videos/24875 from Nov 2009 at ~26:55 talks about the leased battery. It seemed like it wasn't until the last minute that for the US, there was the about face about no more battery leasing. 1st Leaf went on sale in Dec 2010: https://www.engadget.com/2010/12/13/wor ... -the-futu/. I'd imagine that Ghosn is pretty demanding boss. After all, he saved Nissan from near bankruptcy in ~1999, wiped out their debt, turned the company around and had Nissan making record profits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxL4LVgdP7E (from http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Road_tests and many other places) has a bunch of road tests starting at 7:00. The Paris video looks like it has Kadota-san in the driver's seat.

I was at Tokyo Motor Show 2009 (it's always around late Oct/early Nov of every other year now) and saw Leaf on display there. I still have pics. It's in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rUCa2SA_Do.

We may never know what the decision making process was, whether they decided to take a calculated risk (esp. in light of there being no capacity warranty at launch), whether someone didn't want to tell the boss the bad news, whether someone ignored news/data/advice, etc. After all, majority of Leaf sales are in Europe and certain parts of Asia (combined), where it doesn't get that hot...
Thanks for all of the historical background on the history of the Leaf. Loving our 2016 Leaf SL more by the week.

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:46 am
by evas2012leaf
The problem with the heating system in leafs using standard resistance type heaters (all leafs prior to 2013 and s models after) can be helped by learning the controls and their little quirks. In our 2012 leaf I've noticed that the heater is acutally a three stage unit. At low settings it pulls about 1.5kw the medium setting uses between 2.5 and 3 kw at high it will pull 4.5kw. Here in Tennessee we do get some cold weather, but it is rarely below freezing in the day (it actually hit 70 yesterday 12/28). Nightime lows in the winter do drop down in the 30's often with some nights on occasion dropping even into the single digits. I've found by using the mode button to turn on the combo vents/defrost I can choose which level of heat I want by simply choosing the temp. On the otherhand if I use the defrost button it automatically jumps to the high setting. When we are running around at night I will set it to 65 degrees and this will keep the heater locked into the low setting.
Cold does effect the battery range. during warm temps my wife will usually use 2 bars of battery for her commute to her office about 15 miles during cold weather (below 45 and above 30) she will use another 1/2 bar because of the temp and using her heater off and on (she will cycle it to save power). On the few days a year that she is driving the car when the weather is very cold (0 to 20 degrees) she will use another bar of battery capacity. One thing she does to raise the battery temp is to not charge her car when she gets home, but rather plug it in in the morning and charge it for a couple of hours. Current flowing through the battery will create heat and warm the battery up some. This helps with loss due to low temp.

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:13 pm
by LeftieBiker
Yes, charging can be a fair substitute for a battery warmer. You may also want to consider the heater On/Off switch mentioned in the guide, even though you seem to have decent control over it with the temperature control. I'm not sure that that method would work in really cold weather though. Have you tried it in single digit temps?

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:24 pm
by evas2012leaf
Yes, on a few occasions we have had to drive at around 0 degrees F and you can still control the amount of strips that kick in. You do have to preheat the car to 60 degrees but that only takes about 5 minutes at the 4.5 kw level then you can throttle back the temp to save energy. As long as you remember to turn on the heated seats the low setting still keeps you pretty warm and the windshield defrosted. Thankfully, were we live that is a rare happening! Now if I were still living in Belgrade Montana I might have a totally different outcome!

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:42 am
by BrianinTucson
Great thread, Thanks! I've been looking at Leafs in Tucson and Phoenix, only one of them is a '13. For this climate, I think this thread has talked me out of a relatively inexpensive ~$6000 Leaf. Thanks again!

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:23 pm
by TheLostPetrol
evas2012leaf wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:46 am
standard resistance type heaters (all leafs prior to 2013 and s models after)
..and some SV models. I was just in a 2018 SV today that did not have the cold weather package. It had no seat heaters, no steering wheel heater and no heat pump (as confirmed by LeafSpy showing only the 1.5 kW+ of resistance heat and 0 kW of heat pump).

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:51 pm
by LeftieBiker
I guess I should add a section on the Leaf "Too" as they come off lease and go up for sale. The game Nissan is playing with the All Weather Package is terrible.

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:07 pm
by goldbrick
LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:51 pm
The game Nissan is playing with the All Weather Package is terrible.
Amen. I can't believe an SV level trim would come without heated seats. I'm not a Nissan basher but that is just stupid.

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:50 am
by Oilpan4
TheLostPetrol wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:23 pm
evas2012leaf wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:46 am
standard resistance type heaters (all leafs prior to 2013 and s models after)
..and some SV models. I was just in a 2018 SV today that did not have the cold weather package. It had no seat heaters, no steering wheel heater and no heat pump (as confirmed by LeafSpy showing only the 1.5 kW+ of resistance heat and 0 kW of heat pump).
Sounds like my car.