LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:35 pm

I already have a post like that. I'll update it and make sure its' still sticky.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GaleHawkins
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:22 am

cwerdna wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:24 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Nubo wrote:
Has this been established? I recall Nissan stating that the batteries were tested in Arizona prior to launch.
No, although I can't see how they could have done anything but brief overheat testing in Arizona and not discovered the degradation problem. I remember talk of them doing road testing in Japan. I also remember talk of Ghosn (sp?) overriding any TMS implementation in order to meet release date targets, so maybe at least some of the development engineers were worried about the heat tolerance. I'll make that first bit my opinion.
Nissan has an Arizona Testing Center. Not sure when it was established but https://www.motorauthority.com/news/102 ... test-track allegedly from 2007 already mentions Arizona. https://www.nissanusa.com/about/corpora ... ation.html says
NTCNA has a proving ground facility located on 3,050 acres in Stanfield, Arizona. Arizona's low desert terrain provides NTCNA with an ideal environment to test Nissan vehicles for hot weather, heat durability, engine cooling and air conditioner performance. The NTCNA proving ground also features a 5.7 mile high-speed oval and four individual road courses designed to test vehicle durability, reliability, and ride comfort.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... gton-Hills allegedly from 2005 also mentions the Arizona Test Center at the bottom.

Before Leaf was launched, Nissan reps over and over, including Carlos Ghosn said the battery would be leased. So, perhaps they didn't care that much about long term degradation and needed to get to market by a certain time?

https://charlierose.com/videos/24875 from Nov 2009 at ~26:55 talks about the leased battery. It seemed like it wasn't until the last minute that for the US, there was the about face about no more battery leasing. 1st Leaf went on sale in Dec 2010: https://www.engadget.com/2010/12/13/wor ... -the-futu/. I'd imagine that Ghosn is pretty demanding boss. After all, he saved Nissan from near bankruptcy in ~1999, wiped out their debt, turned the company around and had Nissan making record profits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxL4LVgdP7E (from http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Road_tests and many other places) has a bunch of road tests starting at 7:00. The Paris video looks like it has Kadota-san in the driver's seat.

I was at Tokyo Motor Show 2009 (it's always around late Oct/early Nov of every other year now) and saw Leaf on display there. I still have pics. It's in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rUCa2SA_Do.

We may never know what the decision making process was, whether they decided to take a calculated risk (esp. in light of there being no capacity warranty at launch), whether someone didn't want to tell the boss the bad news, whether someone ignored news/data/advice, etc. After all, majority of Leaf sales are in Europe and certain parts of Asia (combined), where it doesn't get that hot...
Thanks for all of the historical background on the history of the Leaf. Loving our 2016 Leaf SL more by the week.

evas2012leaf
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:13 am
Delivery Date: 18 Oct 2016

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:46 am

The problem with the heating system in leafs using standard resistance type heaters (all leafs prior to 2013 and s models after) can be helped by learning the controls and their little quirks. In our 2012 leaf I've noticed that the heater is acutally a three stage unit. At low settings it pulls about 1.5kw the medium setting uses between 2.5 and 3 kw at high it will pull 4.5kw. Here in Tennessee we do get some cold weather, but it is rarely below freezing in the day (it actually hit 70 yesterday 12/28). Nightime lows in the winter do drop down in the 30's often with some nights on occasion dropping even into the single digits. I've found by using the mode button to turn on the combo vents/defrost I can choose which level of heat I want by simply choosing the temp. On the otherhand if I use the defrost button it automatically jumps to the high setting. When we are running around at night I will set it to 65 degrees and this will keep the heater locked into the low setting.
Cold does effect the battery range. during warm temps my wife will usually use 2 bars of battery for her commute to her office about 15 miles during cold weather (below 45 and above 30) she will use another 1/2 bar because of the temp and using her heater off and on (she will cycle it to save power). On the few days a year that she is driving the car when the weather is very cold (0 to 20 degrees) she will use another bar of battery capacity. One thing she does to raise the battery temp is to not charge her car when she gets home, but rather plug it in in the morning and charge it for a couple of hours. Current flowing through the battery will create heat and warm the battery up some. This helps with loss due to low temp.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:13 pm

Yes, charging can be a fair substitute for a battery warmer. You may also want to consider the heater On/Off switch mentioned in the guide, even though you seem to have decent control over it with the temperature control. I'm not sure that that method would work in really cold weather though. Have you tried it in single digit temps?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

evas2012leaf
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:13 am
Delivery Date: 18 Oct 2016

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:24 pm

Yes, on a few occasions we have had to drive at around 0 degrees F and you can still control the amount of strips that kick in. You do have to preheat the car to 60 degrees but that only takes about 5 minutes at the 4.5 kw level then you can throttle back the temp to save energy. As long as you remember to turn on the heated seats the low setting still keeps you pretty warm and the windshield defrosted. Thankfully, were we live that is a rare happening! Now if I were still living in Belgrade Montana I might have a totally different outcome!

BrianinTucson
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:32 am
Delivery Date: 31 Dec 2019

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:42 am

Great thread, Thanks! I've been looking at Leafs in Tucson and Phoenix, only one of them is a '13. For this climate, I think this thread has talked me out of a relatively inexpensive ~$6000 Leaf. Thanks again!

TheLostPetrol
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:19 am
Delivery Date: 23 Jan 2020
Leaf Number: 300683
Location: Greater Chicagoland

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:23 pm

evas2012leaf wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:46 am
standard resistance type heaters (all leafs prior to 2013 and s models after)
..and some SV models. I was just in a 2018 SV today that did not have the cold weather package. It had no seat heaters, no steering wheel heater and no heat pump (as confirmed by LeafSpy showing only the 1.5 kW+ of resistance heat and 0 kW of heat pump).
2020-01-23 Used 2018 LEAF SV Mfd 2018-xx In-serv 2018-04-28
Date mi AHr SOH Hx QC L1/L2
2020-01-24 48,898 103.73 89.8 96.1 29 792

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:51 pm

I guess I should add a section on the Leaf "Too" as they come off lease and go up for sale. The game Nissan is playing with the All Weather Package is terrible.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

goldbrick
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:07 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:51 pm
The game Nissan is playing with the All Weather Package is terrible.
Amen. I can't believe an SV level trim would come without heated seats. I'm not a Nissan basher but that is just stupid.

Oilpan4
Posts: 1491
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:50 am

TheLostPetrol wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:23 pm
evas2012leaf wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:46 am
standard resistance type heaters (all leafs prior to 2013 and s models after)
..and some SV models. I was just in a 2018 SV today that did not have the cold weather package. It had no seat heaters, no steering wheel heater and no heat pump (as confirmed by LeafSpy showing only the 1.5 kW+ of resistance heat and 0 kW of heat pump).
Sounds like my car.
trumpvirus
Is going to get you.

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