Lothsahn
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Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:03 am

coleafrado wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:18 am
As far as I know from his YT videos, the Vectrix has no BMS whatsoever. LeftieBiker simply balances it manually once a month or something like that. Obviously an unacceptable solution for a full-scale EV.
From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vectrix):
The Vectrix scooter uses NiMH batteries with a manufacturer-claimed life of 10 years and 1,500 recharges.[7] The 125-volt battery pack has a capacity of 3.7 kW·h and can be recharged to 80% in two hours from a standard domestic power socket. The battery can also be partially recharged through regenerative braking.[8] Replacement cost of the battery is estimated to be around $3,000, almost one third of the cost of the bike.

That would explain it. NiMH batteries don't require a BMS as they get safely balanced via a slow top-off charge. I'm not aware of any rechargeable Lithium battery anywhere that is > 1 cell that can charge without a BMS. It's not a matter of scale, it's a matter of chemistry. Even small RC airplane/helicopter batteries require balancing (if they're > 1 cell).
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coleafrado
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Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:54 am

Lothsahn wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:03 am
....
That would explain it. NiMH batteries don't require a BMS as they get safely balanced via a slow top-off charge. I'm not aware of any rechargeable Lithium battery anywhere that is > 1 cell that can charge without a BMS. It's not a matter of scale, it's a matter of chemistry. Even small RC airplane/helicopter batteries require balancing (if they're > 1 cell).
Sorry, I guess I wasn't particularly clear. As far as I know, LeftieBiker is the only guy with a Leaf-module-powered Vectrix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ANnVrvQAc

and 300mpg.org. I may have the wrong person, but the guy in the video has not indicated that he uses balancing at all beyond the occasional cell-level check.

cwerdna
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Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:43 am

Latest blog entry at https://fenix.systems/category/news/fenix-news is from Feb 1st. I still didn't notice any updates in terms of progress on their own solution.

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Nubo
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Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:31 pm

Lothsahn wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:03 am
I'm not aware of any rechargeable Lithium battery anywhere that is > 1 cell that can charge without a BMS. It's not a matter of scale, it's a matter of chemistry. Even small RC airplane/helicopter batteries require balancing (if they're > 1 cell).
LiFePO packs can be effectively "bottom balanced". Combined with conservative charge cut-off it can obviate the need for dynamic balancing. I used this for an 8-cell pack I made to power our lawn mower but it has been successfully used for car-sized packs as well.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:26 pm


That would explain it. NiMH batteries don't require a BMS as they get safely balanced via a slow top-off charge. I'm not aware of any rechargeable Lithium battery anywhere that is > 1 cell that can charge without a BMS. It's not a matter of scale, it's a matter of chemistry. Even small RC airplane/helicopter batteries require balancing (if they're > 1 cell).

Sorry, I guess I wasn't particularly clear. As far as I know, LeftieBiker is the only guy with a Leaf-module-powered Vectrix:

That's why my ears were burning! Anyway, I'm not the only one with a Leaf-powered VX-1. Most conversions are actually done with a BMS added, but not all. My bike, converted by the previous owner, doesn't have a BMS. The trick is to use cells that are very closely (to about 3 decimal places in voltage) matched to start. What it does have is balancing leads: thin little wires connected to each cell, that terminate in the cargo compartment in generic plugs. The leads are numbered, and every year or two I check the voltages after a full charge followed by a vigorous ride. I haven't had to re-balance them yet, but if I did I'd have to use something like an RC charger to provide each low cell with a top-up. Why leave off the BMS? Because if the cells are well matched, a BMS failure is more likely to kill the pack than is an imbalance. And the bike's charger tries to top balance the cells as well, when I charge to 100%. Since these are most likely Canary pack modules, I don't do that often...

I may have to sell the bike this year, if I can't find and correct a minor issue that is preventing it from booting up most of the time. It's an interlock in the brakes, oddly enough...

An SQL error preventing me from attributing properly.
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cwerdna
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Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:48 am

I've learned from someone that allegedly Fenix Power has gotten an eviction notice. They pointed me to https://mcsop.permitium.com/sop/searchpage which does currently list an eviction served to FENIX POWER, INC. (DEFENDANT) as of 2/5/2020. I had to look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecklenbu ... h_Carolina.

There is an ongoing thread at https://www.facebook.com/groups/1846649 ... 450289498/ which I'm skimmed parts of. Mr. Bysinger is answering some questions and at https://www.facebook.com/groups/1846649 ... 9243608852, he does acknowledge the departure of their COO and elsewhere in the thread he does mention vacating "the warehouse space".

I haven't had time to dig further.
SalisburySam wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:38 am
joeriv wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:00 am
Seems to me that if a “Leafer” from the Charlotte NC area could pay them a visit and write up his impressions, that could put some meat on the bones.
I’d love to do that and I’m about 35 miles from their Harrisburg NC (bedroom community on the East side of Charlotte) location. That’s sadly about 5 miles out of range for my 2012 SL without a refueling stop. But I like the idea and I could easily make it in my other EV. I’ll try to set up a meeting there. In case that doesn’t work, even a drive-by might be helpful.

They’ve recently contracted a 7000 sq.ft. facility in another part of Charlotte though currently it’s only an empty building. Baby steps, apparently. Still mildly optimistic but would really like to see a retrofitted LEAF rolling around the area sometime, maybe even mine.
Re: their Harrisburg NC location, are you talking about the below as listed on their web site (https://fenix.systems/) and https://fenix.systems/blog?
4311 School House Commons Suite 216
Harrisburg, NC 28075

If so, it appears it is just an address of a UPS Store: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3208476 ... 384!8i8192
https://locations.theupsstore.com/nc/ha ... se-commons

Not clear that there are actual "suites" at the location. Perhaps it's just a mailbox there? It has come up before: viewtopic.php?p=553824#p553824.

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LeftieBiker
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Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:22 am

If this is going as it appears, it's sad. I don't like to see sincere people fail, and it was a good idea that just may have been swept aside as it became possible to install higher capacity Leaf packs instead. If they had a bolt-in 40kwh pack with TMS ready to test it would still be a good idea.
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jlv
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Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:07 am

From that FB thread:
Ryland Erdman: Fenix is building new battery packs inside of used battery cases and installing them in older Leafs.
Makes sense to use the largest case made that fits the older body style.
I'm alarmed that he believes they are "building new battery packs" rather than "claiming they will be able to ...".
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:40 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:22 am
If this is going as it appears, it's sad. I don't like to see sincere people fail, and it was a good idea that just may have been swept aside as it became possible to install higher capacity Leaf packs instead. If they had a bolt-in 40kwh pack with TMS ready to test it would still be a good idea.
Good idea but late to market. Other options are popping up everywhere including Nissan upgrading packs.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 7059.6 mi, 95.35% SOH
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Oilpan4
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Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:39 pm

I never for a second thought Fenix was sincere.
On the surface, from my observations it appears they were a startup that was hoping to get bought out.
I never at any point believed they were going to produce their fancy battery pack.
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Is going to get you.

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