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Re: Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Clas

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:09 am
by hill
LTLFTcomposite wrote:How much did the lawyers get out it? I'll bet none of them are driving evs.
You're right of course. The important thing isn't getting SOME kind of remedy that we'd likely not otherwise get. I'm sure Nissan, in their benevelence would simply pony up and take care of us. Maybe you can pay out of pocket for an entire legal team's office to represent the class. After all it can't be that hard to go up against a multi national corporation, right? More importantly, we ought to worry about how much the other guy (legal team) is getting out of it, rather than whether we get something or nothing.
:?

Re: Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Clas

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:46 am
by RonDawg
davidcary wrote:As a former Honda Civic Hybrid owner, please never claim Honda is good to owners with battery issues. I had to complain to the BBB and file a complaint with the Attorney General to get a new battery at 60k. The software update reduced me at least 5% and I sold the car for less than a non hybrid would sell for.

....

BTW - I never got $100 cash for my troubles on the battery issue....

What was the original battery warranty, and did it cover capacity degradation?

Re: Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Clas

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:16 am
by mwalsh
hill wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:How much did the lawyers get out it? I'll bet none of them are driving evs.
You're right of course. The important thing isn't getting SOME kind of remedy that we'd likely not otherwise get. I'm sure Nissan, in their benevelence would simply pony up and take care of us. Maybe you can pay out of pocket for an entire legal team's office to represent the class. After all it can't be that hard to go up against a multi national corporation, right? More importantly, we ought to worry about how much the other guy (legal team) is getting out of it, rather than whether we get something or nothing.
:?

In our recent class action against a large US bank, the named plaintiffs (6 including myself) each got $4500. Other class members got, IIRC, $35. And on our side the lawyers got $3 million.

But in addition to the money, we got the bank to change the way they did business. And while I'd hoped for a somewhat larger payout for the hardships we'd endured ($10k was the figure I'd originally had in mind), knowing they wouldn't be doing the same things to anyone else was just as important.

Re: Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Clas

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:26 am
by TomT
Well, there might be a Tesla P85+ or two there.... :lol:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:How much did the lawyers get out it? I'll bet none of them are driving evs.

Re: Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Clas

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:36 am
by RegGuheert
RonDawg wrote:What was the original battery warranty, and did it cover capacity degradation?
I think it is (was) 8 years/100,000 miles for all the electic drive components in our MY2003 HCH. While it does not specifically mention capacity, the fact is that as the capacity degrades in the NiMH D cells used, their self-discharge rate also increases, the result being that if the car sits around for a few days you will get a trouble code for the EV battery. So in a sense it is covered.

But there are a few things that bug me about the HCH battery, warranty and class action resolution:

- The break-even mileage for the HCH compared with a standard Civic at the time was around 160,000 miles. Contrast that with the LEAF which is about 60,000 miles. As such, the new capacity warranty for the LEAF should get some disatisfied owners at least to a break-even point so that they can move to another EV or back to a hybrid. (I will note that we find the HCH to be a much nicer car than normal Civics available in 2002 when we purchased it. It is still a great car eleven years after purchase. Likewise, we very much like the LEAF.)
- The batteries in the HCH seem to last for just a bit over the warranty period, but not much longer.
- The thermal management system for the HCH battery seems to have the result that the outer two rows (out of seven) of battery sticks degrade faster than the other five. (Becasuse of this, I have wondered if the LEAF may also show similar uneven battery degradation. So far it doesn't look terrible.)
- Honda really has not shown much commitment to Improving their hybrid technology since they developed the Insight.
- The reprogramming which was provided as part of the lawsuit resolution did more harm than good. It reduced the efficiency of the car while causing the EV warning light to come sooner than it would have otherwise. Had I known this in advance, I would definitely have foregone the new firmware. (I think Honda made much more money off this move than the settlement cost them.)

All-in-all, I consider both the HCH and the LEAF to be good purchases for us. I would be happier with Honda if they had not downgraded the firmware in our HCH after ten years of reliable service, however. I guess that's why I'm not first in line when Nissan offers new firmware with their new battery warranty.

Re: Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Clas

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:47 am
by Nubo
davidcary wrote:All deals involve negotiations with all parties. Nissan could have been thinking that a capacity warranty was a good idea anyway and worked it into the settlement. It isn't like the judge made up the warranty - Nissan made it up and offered it as part of a settlement.
I have similar thoughts. I'm quick to point out when Nissan make bonehead moves, but I don't understand the animosity resulting from this settlement announcement. Trying to ascribe the percentage of goodwill vs. legal arm-twisting that went into the creation of the warranty doesn't really take us anywhere.

Re: Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Clas

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:57 am
by RonDawg
RegGuheert wrote: - Honda really has not shown much commitment to Improving their hybrid technology since they developed the Insight.
I agree. The gen II Insight was/is a horrible disappointment compared to the latest Prius. No wonder I don't see many of them around, even in SoCal.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Honda is not interested in battery-electric cars beyond the need to satisfy any government mandates. They are betting the future on Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles. Hybrids are just a stop-gap for them until the infrastructure is better developed and the costs of the fuel cells become more reasonable.
- The reprogramming which was provided as part of the lawsuit resolution did more harm than good. It reduced the efficiency of the car while causing the EV warning light to come sooner than it would have otherwise. Had I known this in advance, I would definitely have foregone the new firmware. (I think Honda made much more money off this move than the settlement cost them.)
I thought it was a software/firmware upgrade that led to the problems that led to the lawsuit. Or are you talking about a revision that made the first problem even worse?

Re: Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Clas

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:06 am
by mwalsh
Nubo wrote:I have similar thoughts. I'm quick to point out when Nissan make bonehead moves, but I don't understand the animosity resulting from this settlement announcement. Trying to ascribe the percentage of goodwill vs. legal arm-twisting that went into the creation of the warranty doesn't really take us anywhere.
I think, rightly or wrongly, we each have something of an emotional investment in Nissan now, and it's difficult to see them treat us the same way other corporations treat us. So, to an extent, I DO see where some of the animosity comes from. But I think it's our problem and not theirs. They aren't going to change (or if they do it will be very slowly). So the answer for many of us will be to break-up with Nissan and try to find a car company that will love us the way we deserve to be loved. Others will be happy just being F buddies, knowing that Nissan will get up and leave in the middle of the night and not call the next day. And a third subset will be mostly unhappy, but stay for the sake of the children. :D

Re: Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Clas

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:06 am
by TomT
Redacted.

Re: Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Clas

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:09 am
by TomT
It reprogrammed the car to depend more on the ICE and less on the battery. This led to significantly poorer gas mileage. It also caused some, such as the state of California, to indicate it might void the emission certification...
RonDawg wrote:I thought it was a software/firmware upgrade that led to the problems that led to the lawsuit. Or are you talking about a revision that made the first problem even worse?