Was I wrong to buy a car with CHAdeMO?

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Greetings, I'm new to this forum but actually joined specifically for this topic. My 2021 SL+ is my first EV and I knew next to nothing about DC fast charging standards before purchasing the car. Finding out chademo was slowly dying out after buying a brand new car was a little harsh, but I didn't (and don't) think I'll be doing much quick charging anyway so for the most part it's a non-issue. The range I bought into fits what I need to do 95% of the time and for longer trips we always have the ICE on hand anyway.

However,

I seriously think NIssan should engineer and market a chademo to ccs adapter.

I gather from reading the posts in this thread that the systems have considerable differences that go beyond just the physical connectors and that some kind of software magic would be required. Since I'm way out of my depth on anything technical there the best I can do is to acknowledge that it might not be easy simple or cheap. Reading about the difficulties some people are having with getting ccs chargers to cooperate or the relative flimsiness of the connector compared to chademo does make me wonder if they made the right choice. I must admit the chademo connector and cable are ridiculously heavy compared to ccs and I can see not wanting little old ladies getting crushed under the weight of the thing.

All the same it really does look more and more like CCS is going to slowly replace the not terribly plentiful chademo charging options out there anyway, Nissan going with CCS on the Ariya makes it obvious they don't disagree. To me seeing Tesla release a supercharger to ccs adapter really makes my point for me.

If Tesla can acknowledge the need and make an adapter for it I doubt there's a reason Nissan can't.

Apologies for any rambling.
 
Thankfully there are still many new Chademo installations going in around the country, but I do believe that the rate of growth will slow down after next year.

From what I am reading S and X Teslas will continue to need to use the Chademo adapter when not at super chargers, even after ccs adapter launch; and funny enough the Outlander Phev has picked up in sales. Combined with Leaf sales through at least into early 2023, Chademo demand is still going up, just slower than ccs.

All of which will help support the continuation of the Chademo world for at least the next 5 years before any significant fall off, possibly longer.

I was hoping Lexus would have brought their Chademo based EV here, but no luck. Same with Chademo enabled Prius Prime.
 
If you live in California, no worries. CARB made a separate deal with Electrify America (Volkswagen) so they will continue to support CHADEMO for some time. If you live elsewhere but don't plan to use the car for long trips, you're still OK. Only those who don't have access to Level 2 charging or plan to take long trips are going to be impacted. CHADEMO is dying and Electrify America is not going to install new CHADEMO stations outside of California. EVGO on the other hand is courting Tesla users by installing Tesla adaptors on their CHADEMO stations. They will probably continue to install CHADEMO for that reason. It will be easier to find a CCS station than a CHADEMO but not impossible. Since Tesla is opening up it's network to other cars, it might be simpler to engineer a Tesla to CHADEMO adaptor instead.
 
johnlocke said:
If you live in California, no worries. CARB made a separate deal with Electrify America (Volkswagen) so they will continue to support CHADEMO for some time.
'Support' means one CHAdeMO plug per new location, and who knows how upkeep will be. In the beginning EA said they would support 100 kW CHAdeMO but it was derated to 50 kW when problems cropped up. Has that been resolved ? If not, it is more evidence that CHAdeMO is at best in caretaker mode and at worst, zombie mode.

About a month ago I bought a CHAdeMO to Tesla adapter for my Tesla so I obviously think the CHAdeMO network has some value to me but as my primary or only network ? No way Jose. As an aside, there was some question a while ago how popular the CHAdeMO adapter is with Tesla owners. I have yet to use it outside of testing for my personal use. It is offered to my community of ~ 1M population for rent at $10 a day and has been used by one person so far for charging in Colorado during a trip.
 
SageBrush said:
johnlocke said:
If you live in California, no worries. CARB made a separate deal with Electrify America (Volkswagen) so they will continue to support CHADEMO for some time.
'Support' means one CHAdeMO plug per new location, and who knows how upkeep will be. In the beginning EA said they would support 100 kW CHAdeMO but it was derated to 50 kW when problems cropped up. Has that been resolved ? If not, it is more evidence that CHAdeMO is at best in caretaker mode and at worst, zombie mode.

About a month ago I bought a CHAdeMO to Tesla adapter for my Tesla so I obviously think the CHAdeMO network has some value to me but as my primary or only network ? No way Jose. As an aside, there was some question a while ago how popular the CHAdeMO adapter is with Tesla owners. I have yet to use it outside of testing for my personal use. It is offered to my community of ~ 1M population for rent at $10 a day and has been used by one person so far for charging in Colorado during a trip.
I can't speak to EA's original plans but if you skip to the middle of http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2020/07/june-2020-drive-report-how-roadtripping.html, you'll see Dave hit 73 kW on EA CHAdeMO. At 6:48 into https://insideevs.com/news/495913/nissan-leaf-dc-fast-charging-curve/, you can see that guy hitting 69 kW on EA CHAdeMO.

As for how popular, I've observed people every now and then here in the Bay Area using Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter, even after free juice (e.g. DrivetheARC) was over. RayK over at TMC uses his CHAdeMO adapter a bunch (e.g. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chademo-charging-the-model-3.160882/page-11#post-5390259, https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chademo-charging-the-model-3.160882/page-13#post-5475171, https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/solar-powered-model-3.239405/#post-5892619). One time, I was at the water district's DC FC using CCS and saw a Model 3 start to CHAdeMO charge on the other unit. I was thinking it might be RayK (I believe he's Asian from his ChargePoint check-ins). Those Model 3 occupants weren't Asian.
 
Twigsandleaves said:
I seriously think NIssan should engineer and market a chademo to ccs adapter.
Nissan would much rather you buy a new EV from them that supports CCS natively.
 
SageBrush said:
johnlocke said:
If you live in California, no worries. CARB made a separate deal with Electrify America (Volkswagen) so they will continue to support CHADEMO for some time.
'Support' means one CHAdeMO plug per new location, and who knows how upkeep will be. In the beginning EA said they would support 100 kW CHAdeMO but it was derated to 50 kW when problems cropped up. Has that been resolved ? If not, it is more evidence that CHAdeMO is at best in caretaker mode and at worst, zombie mode.

About a month ago I bought a CHAdeMO to Tesla adapter for my Tesla so I obviously think the CHAdeMO network has some value to me but as my primary or only network ? No way Jose. As an aside, there was some question a while ago how popular the CHAdeMO adapter is with Tesla owners. I have yet to use it outside of testing for my personal use. It is offered to my community of ~ 1M population for rent at $10 a day and has been used by one person so far for charging in Colorado during a trip.
EVGO is equipping their stations with a CHADEMO to Tesla converter plug that uses the original CHADEMO plug on the station. That indicates to me that they intend to continue to support CHADEMO and garner some Tesla people as well. I agree that I'd rather have a CCS charge port or a CHADEMO to CCS adaptor but there doesn't seem to be anyone working on that. It does appear that CHADEMO will linger on for a while.
 
johnlocke said:
EVGO is equipping their stations with a CHADEMO to Tesla converter plug that uses the original CHADEMO plug on the station. That indicates to me that they intend to continue to support CHADEMO and garner some Tesla people as well. ...
It does appear that CHADEMO will linger on for a while.
I've never seen it on the ground, only descriptions and photos. Doesn't that 're-use' the CHAdeMO plug into a Tesla plug ?
 
SageBrush said:
johnlocke said:
EVGO is equipping their stations with a CHADEMO to Tesla converter plug that uses the original CHADEMO plug on the station. That indicates to me that they intend to continue to support CHADEMO and garner some Tesla people as well. ...
It does appear that CHADEMO will linger on for a while.
I've never seen it on the ground, only descriptions and photos. Doesn't that 're-use' the CHAdeMO plug into a Tesla plug ?
There are a whole bunch. See https://www.evgo.com/tesla/. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/evgo-reportedly-adding-tesla-plugs-to-their-dc-fast-chargers.178540/#post-5385857 has some Plugshare links with pics. I even made the 2:38 video at https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/evgo-reportedly-adding-tesla-plugs-to-their-dc-fast-chargers.178540/page-2 showing two of these at BTC Power Fatboy chargers in the Bay Area.

As I noted in their FB post at https://www.facebook.com/evgonetwork/posts/4230909943612580, they claim to hit 400 of these installed as of early Aug 2021.
 
jlv said:
Twigsandleaves said:
I seriously think NIssan should engineer and market a chademo to ccs adapter.
Nissan would much rather you buy a new EV from them that supports CCS natively.

Of course, that's a given. The question is do they care about Tesla making them look lazy by providing better chademo support than they do enough to bother making an adapter that gives their customers the same flexibility.
 
RNeil said:
I recently bought a 2021 Leaf. Now I learn that the CHAdeMO interface is being phased out.


Was I wrong to buy a Leaf?
Is there an adapter that lets me use a CCA charger?
Is or will there be a way to convert my car to CCS/SAE?

It is possible to convert the leaf to CCS, or even better, keep Chademo and add CCS. www.Muxsan.com in the Netherlands already does it. They don’t ship to the states yet but if he can do it, others in the US might also start offering similar conversion one day.
 
I recently sold my 24 kWh LEAF as part of a move into a bigger battery EV. If a CCS enabled LEAF was available I would have considered it but CHAdeMO was a non-starter. I bought a new Bolt LT for just under $26k before taxes and so far am quite pleased with the car, not to mention waking up to a battery pack temp below 80F. :lol:

I was reasonably good at managing my LEAF's small battery and lack of pack thermal conditioning but I'm happy to put those days behind me.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
26K for a new 2023 Bolt is fantastic.

New 2022 Bolt LT with new battery due to the recall

OTD was $26,400 + 4% tax, and it comes with a $500 charging credit redeemable at ChargePoint/EVGo and a few other minor operators. So that part of my deal was $27k.
I sold my LEAF for $9,000 so at the moment the change in EVs works out to :
2013 LEAF + $18,000 = Bolt LT

Luck appears to be on my side at the moment though because I have a Tesla Model Y LR reservation that will cost me $54,400 + $2,200 state tax, but I think is worth about $70,000 to the internet car dealers. So I will probably flip that Tesla for a $10 - $13k profit, resulting in a net cost to me of my LEAF + $5,000 for the Bolt.

I have been offered $30,200 for my Bolt, so I'm thinking about flipping it for an ID.4 Pro S that has an msrp of $49.7k + 1.3k shipping (top of their line) that will end up costing me (net, net) my LEAF + $18,000. If I end up less than happy with the ID.4 or Tesla knocks my socks off, I'll sell the ID.4 in a year or two with a tail-wind of a $4k used EV credit and a Tesla EV credit of $7.5k

This is all pretty much dumb luck, nothing I really planned other than being skeptical of leases, in part because they restrict flexibility.
 
If you have access to the capital, EV arbitrage is a pretty safe bet these days. Assuming the current bill gets through Congress in close to its current form it would be hard to lose money, and worst case, you get to keep the EV.

Used EV prices are nuts here in CO and will probably go up even more if/when the bill passes because there will be more demand for new EVs and the new tax rebates available for used. I doubt the supply constraints will be eased for several years at least, and many folks will just not wait that long.
 
goldbrick said:
If you have access to the capital, EV arbitrage is a pretty safe bet these days.

Yep, in particular if state taxes are not so high they spoil the party
 
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