Things You REALLY Need to Know When Shopping for a Used Leaf

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DougWantsALeaf said:
I agree that Nissan should have done more to educate the early buyer to prolong battery life. Tesla did a bit better.
They did, but many people didn't RTFM like the 6 bar '13 driver at https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31297&p=587653#p587652 or read the disclosures (if they received the forms at purchase/lease time).

Oddly, some of the cautions went away once Nissan removed the 80% limiter ("long-life mode") starting w/model year '14: https://insideevs.com/news/320736/2014-nissan-leaf-mostly-unchanged-as-range-technically-moves-up-to-84-miles/.

See pages:
EV-23 of https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2011/2011-LEAF-owner-manual.pdf.
EV-24 of https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2013/2013-LEAF-owner-manual.pdf
EV-24 of https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2014/2014-LEAF-owner-manual.pdf

And, some people leased with no intention to buy at the end, so they probably didn't care.

But, I agree, Nissan could've done more to strongly encourage like in the car's UI, app, etc. and instead of taking away the 80% limiter, added a more flexible one that Tesla's had for ages or maybe even day 1 of Model S. GM also added a more flexible one with Bolt starting w/model year '19 (40 to 100% limiter instead of hilltop reserve on/off).

Side note: Two Bolt drivers on my street leave their Bolts unplugged outside/on the street when it hits past 90 or 100 F so the battery thermal management may never engage while parked w/car off (or it engages at some really high unknown temp): https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/battery-conditioning.33279/#post-512173 (27 C = 80.6 F). GM hasn't ever published these thresholds AFAIK.

I haven't talked to them about this and am not sure if they're leasing. They both had gen 1 Leafs before, but they leased them and returned them at end of lease.
 
New member and have read thread. I notice that it's been suggested that you can take the road test to grade the battery in a used Leaf. However will this test be accurate if the "BMS" has been done on the Leaf recently? Also is there anyway to see if the BMS has been performed on a used Leaf? One more question are there any good resources out there that will give me an accurate price on the Leaf before I go into a dealership and low ball them at the end of the month? This is a great blog for those of us that are looking into purchasing a used Leaf. Thanks to all that provide info and especially Leftiesbiker! :D
 
The range test (road test) is the only way to determine actual capacity right after a BMS reset, because the reset changes everything that displays capacity, but NOT the actual capacity itself. If the Leaf has a 30kwh pack, then Nissan should know if the BMS update/reset was done, but in the case of accidental or deliberate resets of 24kwh Leafs, you can't always tell. The one sure way to know is if the car loses more than one capacity bar in a short period - weeks or a few months.
 
Thanks for the fast response. Is the BMS software update exclusive to Nissan for can any dealership/repair shop obtain it?
 
LeftieBiker said:
Nissan only, and I believe the dealer has to be Leaf-certified.
Yeah, most likely given the documents and procedure below for the 2016 to 2017 30 kWh car update.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143139-9999.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143483-9999.pdf
 
LeftieBiker said:
The range test (road test) is the only way to determine actual capacity right after a BMS reset
Charging tests also work, and are arguably the simpler method. You just need a metered charger, and to be aware of ~ 12% charging losses. I presume it is also easier to convince a seller to let their car be charged instead of driven 50 - 100 miles

I like using public L2 ChargePoint at 6 - 7 kW, and add 50% SoC. Total usable battery capacity in that case would be
kWh_reported * 0.88 * 2

So e.g.,
If it took 10 kWh to raise the SoC 50% the usable battery capacity would be
10*0.88*2 = 17.6 kWh
 
GerryAZ said:
LeftieBiker said:
Amazing that they had that center, apparently used it for heat durability testing as well as overheat testing...and still dropped the ball so badly. It took how long? Less than a year? for the first AZ Leafs to start losing bars? Either they tested for just a few months and shrugged off the capacity loss at that point, or they made a really bad decision. They could, after all, have just not sold the Leaf in the three or four hottest US states, maybe excluding California...

Anyway, let's keep in mind that this is supposed to be a guide to the most critical things to evaluate when shopping for a used Leaf. How does the guide look right now?

I am glad that Nissan chose to sell the LEAF in Arizona because I have been able to drive electric since 2011 without building my own conversion or spending a fortune for a Tesla. I suspect Nissan's testing at their AZ proving ground included lots of miles driven at highway speeds with frequent quick charges. That driving/charging pattern would minimize capacity loss compared to typical consumer use.

Climate control on 2011 and 2012:
1. The minimum cabin temperature setting is 60 degrees F (15 C) so you cannot have ventilation without heat when ambient temperature drops below that.
2. The controller will sometimes energize the heating element when air conditioning is being used in moderate temperatures.
3. The temperature set point for climate control timer and remote activation is fixed at 77 degrees F (25 C) so the controller may activate heat when you want A/C or A/C when heat is desired if ambient temperature is near that setting.

Items 1 and 2 can be addressed by installing the plug-and-play heater control switch kit available online. For a while, there was a company that sold modified HVAC controllers to address item 1, but that internal modification did not prevent the heater from being activated with A/C as noted in item 2. Some technical owners made their own modifications (either temporary or permanent) to keep the heating element from being activated. I installed a temporary resistor to prevent heating element activation and would have ordered the plug/play kit if my 2011 had not met its untimely demise.
---------
Can you tell to me where I can buy the "heater control switch kit" ????
 
I don't know if the kit is still available or not.

You might want to consider some other options, some of which are quite cheap, and one (the one I used) requires soldering and a few parts. This link is to the presently last post, which has links to various other pages that have the images still working :
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11412&p=594916#p594916
 
Worth mentioning now if the Leaf is out of warranty there is a risk you will see B1018 Code - Passenger Seat sensor failure which is a multi thousand dollar repair.

2011 and 2012 are clearly not covered in any recall even through the issue is common and newer leafs like the 2013-2016 might see that issue, well worth checking recall status on any car in this range and avoiding them if there isn't an outstanding recall.*

* wait, why buy it if there is a recall? You might ask.

Well if the recall hasn't been done you can get a new seat with sensor under recall and know it is a fresh part that likely won't fail soon.

If you don't have that recall pending you could have a car that will have that part fail soon, not have the recall pending, and have to pay out of pocket to fix that issue.

Nissan won't sell you just the sensor, you have to buy a full seat with all the parts that go with that (heating elements, sensors, controllers, side air bag) and it has to be installed by the dealer and paired up with the car. If you buy used parts you have to still go to the dealer to get it paired up and then they'll tell you to buy new parts or they won't do it.

The older the car the greater the risk but at this point even a 2015 or 2016 could have a dodgy sensor waiting to fail on you, and even the 2016 is out of warranty.
 
I wanted to get a used Tesla for my wife but I now realize that within months, she will give it multiple door dings, scuff marks on all 4 corners of the front/rear bumpers, and scraped up rims from parking the car where the curb once was. Because of this, I decided to spend much less than the price of a used Tesla, so that I won't have to worry when the car ages faster than a platinum blonde in the tropical sun.

So from everything I've read, the sweet spot is:
- 2017 Leaf
- 30kwh battery with software upgrade already done (or 40kwh battery replacement done)
- Battery health shows at least 9 out of 12 bars
- at least 107 mile range (not 84)
- around 30k miles on the odometer
- comes with the 120V charging cable
- L3 charging not important for me
- selling at $10-$11k

Do I have this right?
 
So from everything I've read, the sweet spot is:
- 2017 Leaf
- 30kwh battery with software upgrade already done (or 40kwh battery replacement done)
- Battery health shows at least 9 out of 12 bars
- at least 107 mile range (not 84)
- around 30k miles on the odometer
- comes with the 120V charging cable
- L3 charging not important for me
- selling at $10-$11k

Do I have this right?

Not quite. A 30kwh Leaf with 9 bars would have a range of roughly 80 real world miles - much less in cold Winter weather. As I mention above, you want either a 30kwh Leaf that's about to drop to 8 bars AFTER the BMS update, or one with 11-12 bars also AFTER the BMS update. The latter would still have only about a 90-95 mile range. If you want a range of over 100 miles, I suggest you look at 2018 40kwh Leaf lease returns.
 
LeftieBiker said:
So from everything I've read, the sweet spot is:
- 2017 Leaf
- 30kwh battery with software upgrade already done (or 40kwh battery replacement done)
- Battery health shows at least 9 out of 12 bars
- at least 107 mile range (not 84)
- around 30k miles on the odometer
- comes with the 120V charging cable
- L3 charging not important for me
- selling at $10-$11k

Do I have this right?

Not quite. A 30kwh Leaf with 9 bars would have a range of roughly 80 real world miles - much less in cold Winter weather. As I mention above, you want either a 30kwh Leaf that's about to drop to 8 bars AFTER the BMS update, or one with 11-12 bars also AFTER the BMS update. The latter would still have only about a 90-95 mile range. If you want a range of over 100 miles, I suggest you look at 2018 40kwh Leaf lease returns.

Leftie, got it. The public service you've provided here is so valuable - even 3 years after you originally posted it. Would like to get your opinion/guess on this please: Would it be fair to say the following, especially in a tech-savvy location like the SF Bay Area:
1. Almost all 2017 Leafs with 30kwh batteries have received the BMS update
2. Almost all 2017 Leafs with 30kwh batteries and the BMS update which had 8 or fewer bars had the battery replaced

In other words, Leaf owners have done the BMS update when needed, or got the battery replaced when required.

Price wise, 2017 seems to have better deals/value than 2016 or 2018. Here is some typical pricing:

- 2018 S, 151 mi range, $14.5k
- 2017 SV, 31k mi, 107 miles range, $11.5k
- 2016 S, 40k mi, 84miles range, $11k
 
I really can't say if most of those 30kwh Leafs have had the BMS update, and I'm inclined to say that most of the 8 bar cars have NOT had the battery replaced with the 40kwh version. And thanks.
 
I talked to an import agent (who imports cars from Japan to Australia etc.), and he has extensive experience of testing SOH of the Leaf's/Leaves he looks at (in auction). He has a rule of only importing those with at least 80% SOH (11 bars).

I asked him about the 30Kwh batteries degrading faster, and the apparent firmware update from Nissan. He said he knows about the issue from online forums etc, but has not heard of it being an issue in Japanese Leaves. He even contacted Nissan a few times to ask about the firmware update for 30Kwh Leaves, and Nissan Japan said that there isn't one.

Is the firmware update and battery issues limited to Leaves manufactured in (or for) other markets?
 
Considering purchase of 2018-19 Leaf with 20-30,000 miles. What sort of issues should I be looking for with used Gen 2 Leaf? Thanks,
 
I really need to write up a guide for the Gen 2, but in short:

* There were a significant number of bad or weak cells in the 2018 Leafs. Use LeafSpy Pro to check the battery of any prospective Leaf. Bad or weak cells will show much lower voltages than the rest of the pack on the voltage histogram chart. LS also gives the maximum difference in voltage between cells. If that voltage is over 50mv, be concerned. Smaller differences are normal.

* The 2018 Leaf has more issues with Pro Pilot than do later model years. The front radar units can ice up or fail from exposure to a lot of moisture. Nissan only replaces them when they throw error codes.

* Starting in, I believe, 2021, the accelerator pedal mapping was changed. Eco mode is now very underpowered, and Normal/D mode is also wimpier. I've gone from driving in Eco 90% of the time to driving in D mode most of the time.

* Starting in 2019 or 2020, the pedestrian warning sound (VSP) was made louder. It bothers some people, sounding a bit like the sonar sounds you hear in submarine movies. It is no longer adjustable/muteable, IIRC.
 
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