Electrify America Excludes CHAdeMO in Investment Cycle 3

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

SageBrush

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,959
Location
NM
Taken from https://www.electrifyamerica.com/assets/pdf/cycle3_investment_plan_epa.a19109d1.pdf

Through Cycles 1 and 2, Electrify America will have built
over 800 CHAdeMO stations across the country. Together with nearly 5,000 chargers built by other
networks, legacy CHAdeMO drivers have access to a robust charging network. At the time of writing, the
ratio of CHAdeMO vehicles in operation to CHAdeMO DCFC is just 22:1. Given this, Electrify America will
focus its Cycle 3 investment on the future of electrification and deploy CCS as the non-proprietary
standard at our stations. This action helps to reinforce the automotive manufacturers’ convergence on a
single standard, reduces customer confusion
,


As justification for the change, EA notes the reduction in CHAdeMO usage

In recent years, the automotive industry has converged on CCS as the non-proprietary standard of choice for vehicles in the U.S. Nissan, the last BEV manufacturer producing CHAdeMO vehicles for the North American market, has announced that the upcoming Ariya will use CCS charging (Goodwin, 2020). As sales of all new BEVs shift to CCS, Electrify America forecasts that over 90% of the non-Tesla BEVs in operation will use CCS by 2025. Electrify America is already seeing this shift at our stations. CHAdeMO usage (including Tesla via CHAdeMO adapter) accounted for just 9% of station usage in the first quarter of 2021, down from 15% in 2019, despite CHAdeMO chargers making up over 20% of all DCFC equipment at our stations. In addition, whereas historically a CHAdeMO adapter was the only way to fast charge Tesla vehicles outside of the Supercharger network, in late-2020 Setec Power released a CCS to Tesla adapter (Moloughney, 2020), thereby unlocking CCS chargers to interested Tesla drivers.
 
Thanks for the quote. No surprise they're openly admitting to stacking the deck and helping VW AG's business interests.

For the 2nd quote that you added later, that seems rather self-fulfilling. Who would want to chance using EA CHAdeMO when there's only one and it's not that infrequently down? I see check-ins from EA themselves saying CHAdeMO at a given location is down. Given the crap ratio, EA reliability problems in general + that... is it any wonder usage is down?

I think they're rounding up or something with their 20% claim. Even at 6 handle locations, if 1 were CHAdeMO, that's 16.66%. For their 1 CHAdeMO vs. 15 CCS sites, that's 6.25% CHAdeMO.

Oh well, ship has sailed. I guess we'll see more angry CHAdeMO users over time...
 
cwerdna said:
No surprise they're openly admitting to stacking the deck and helping VW AG's business interests.
:lol:

Nonsense. It is helping every EV manufacturer. It does leave LEAF behind but that is hardly news.
 
I think they're rounding up or something with their 20% claim. Even at 6 handle locations, if 1 were CHAdeMO, that's 16.66%. For their 1 CHAdeMO vs. 15 CCS sites, that's 6.25% CHAdeMO.

I've never been sure how EA counts. They have something called a 'station,' that has plugs. Often (always ?) only one plug can be active per station so for the most part, maximum active plugs = stations. In the case of CHAdeMO, the station has one CCS plug and one CHAdeMO plug. Then the counting gets tricky.

E.g., let's say there are 4 stations. 3 of the stations have two CCS plugs while the 4rth station has one CHAdeMO plug and one CCS plug. How is that location counted ? My guess is 4 CCS, 1 CHAdeMO which would be 20% CHAdeMO but I'm really not sure. In any case, this is not a case of "rounding" but of accounting. So long as their accounting method has stayed the same, the trend of decreasing CHAdeMO usage is clear. It is not obviously less CHAdeMO usage by the way, but I think more likely more CCS usage. This does put a fork in Doug's forlorn hope that Tesla drivers will flock to EA with their CHAdeMO adapters. :lol:
 
Yes, just another nail. I was hoping that Chademo with EA would continue for at least as long as the Leaf is sold. Nissan just posted 2022 video manuals for the , and it really looks like 0 change for 2022.

Honestly, as bitter as some of this board is at EA, I am very thankful that EA has put in 800 Chademos. Without EA, I could not made my trip with my son across Iowa 2 years ago in our first Plus for college visits. Now 2 years later there are many choices.

My hope is that we have 2 more years of incremental Chademo growth (and it is still growing) and a few years of Plateau. With Leaf still selling for at least 1 more year, I don't think that is far fetched. A few Tesla sessions thrown in won't hurt. Beyond 3-4 years we will likely be one to at least one new EV. So many new choices, it is really hard to know what to try. That's said, I am still drawn to all of the Leaf deals. You can still pick up a new S+ post Fed rebate for 24K without any real negotiating. Like less with some tenacity. Most of the new EVs are only in the 250-300 mile range, which feels only incrementally better than my S+. I would like to see a bigger jump (but cheaper than a Lucid).

It is interesting that Nissan continues to expand the distribution of Leaf globally. It feels like it is going to be in their portfolio for at least a few more years.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
My hope is that we have 2 more years of incremental Chademo growth (and it is still growing) and a few years of Plateau. With Leaf still selling for at least 1 more year, I don't think that is far fetched.
That strikes me as reasonable, but I expect plugs to fall into disrepair way before they are removed. That has certainly been true of Albuquerque, though those stations were not EA. Plugshare will help you avoid broken locations.
 
SageBrush said:
I think they're rounding up or something with their 20% claim. Even at 6 handle locations, if 1 were CHAdeMO, that's 16.66%. For their 1 CHAdeMO vs. 15 CCS sites, that's 6.25% CHAdeMO.

I've never been sure how EA counts. They have something called a 'station,' that has plugs. Often (always ?) only one plug can be active per station so for the most part, maximum active plugs = stations. In the case of CHAdeMO, the station has one CCS plug and one CHAdeMO plug. Then the counting gets tricky.

E.g., let's say there are 4 stations. 3 of the stations have two CCS plugs while the 4rth station has one CHAdeMO plug and one CCS plug. How is that location counted ? My guess is 4 CCS, 1 CHAdeMO which would be 20% CHAdeMO but I'm really not sure. In any case, this is not a case of "rounding" but of accounting. So long as their accounting method has stayed the same, the trend of decreasing CHAdeMO usage is clear. It is not obviously less CHAdeMO usage by the way, but I think more likely more CCS usage. This does put a fork in Doug's forlorn hope that Tesla drivers will flock to EA with their CHAdeMO adapters. :lol:


EA uses "station" and "charger" the same way CARB does - a "station" is the same as a gas station i.e. a "site", a "charger" is a single DC FC or L2 (not counting dual connectors, only one of which can be used at a time). Current totals are:


  • TYPE NUMBER
    Live stations 647
    Coming Soon 121

    CHARGER COUNT
    TYPE NUMBER
    CCS 2134
    CCS-CHAdeMO 647
    Level 2 119
 
GRA said:
CHARGER COUNT
TYPE NUMBER
CCS 2134
CCS-CHAdeMO 647
Level 2 119[/list]

Thanks for the correction.
So how many CCS and how many CHAdeMO ?

Is it:
CCS: 2134+647
CHAdeMO: 647

?
 
^^^ Correct. Plugshare counts the chargers independently - a typical site with 2-350 kW & 1-150 kW CCS + 1-150kW CCS/50kW CHAdeMO is listed as 4 CCS & 1 CHAdeMO, even though only four chargers can be used simultaneously.
 
Back
Top