Comparing 2011 (62 kWh) Leaf to 2021 Volvo XC 40 (75 kWh)Charge, because why not

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jbsocdelica

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May 5, 2016
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Owning two EVs that were made a decade apart, gave me a moment to compare them along several variables. I can expand this sort of silly comparison if comments warrant. But since I have both cars, I get to compare them all the time.
 

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Many of your comparisons would apply to my recent purchase of the 2021 SV Plus and the 2012 (24 kWh) that I traded in. The 2012 was simply fun to drive. The 2021 is a a modern "luxury" feeling auto - very nice (hate all the Sirius XM stuff - useless). If I'd had the option of $7K for put a 62 kWh in my 2012, I'd gone for that as I'm hoping for a "commercial" use of the CHAdeMO bidirectional capabiities asap (V2X/H).

Thanks for taking the time.
 
Appreciate your comparison, I too like to compare and look at somewhat different vehicles, case in point for our next vehicle to replace our '13 S Leaf and '07 Prius, I looked at and was serious about:
Prius Prime-Positives-Great MPG, heat pump heater and Toyota reliability. Negatives would be lower to the ground no AWD and a relatively short EV range.
Rav4 Prime-Positives-Very good MPG for an SUV, Toyota reliability, higher seating, AWD, heat pump heater, and good EV range. Negatives would be, not Prius MPG, higher cost but still not bad, 2yr wait :(
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV-Positives-Low price, AWD, easy to fine. Negatives-outdated design, Mitsubishi brand, lowish MPG, no heat pump heater, and just OK EV range.
Coming from an EVs I really wanted one vehicle that could do it all, across town and yet the ability to go 500 miles in a hurry, because of this I limited my searches to a PHEV. We really wanted higher seating, hence an SUV, and really wanted decent MPG. In the end, we ordered the Rav4 Prime, and am currently about a year and a half out from when they thought it might be available to purchase, we put $500 down.

A good percent SOC meter is also important to me, zippy isn't too important but the 300hp of the Rav4 Prime is in a class of one,
Curious what you meant by "Volvo seats, need I say more". I've owned several Volvos over the year, all older like late 60s to early 70s but can't say their seats stood out one way or the other.
I also despise the cramped cockpit design, hence why I didn't purchase the Volt back in the day, nice vehicle and had a lot going for it but way too cramped!
 
Prius Prime-Positives-Great MPG, heat pump heater and Toyota reliability.

Based on our experiences with our former PIP, I'd advise against a Toyota PHEV if it will be used mainly as an EV, or mainly for shorter trips with the ICE in use. They don't give adequate consideration to these use cases when they design their PHEVs. When we traded ours in, it was running on 3 1/2 cylinders.
 
There's a real "hidden benefit" here that I think doesn't get discussed much...probably because the sample size of folks that have replaced/upgraded the battery pack in their Gen1 (2011-2015) Leafs is so small.
I am convinced that a Gen1 Leaf gets more range from the newer (larger) packs than the actual donor Gen2 car! I suspect a lot of it is the simple fact that the Gen1 AC motor is ~80 kW vs the Gen2 ~160 kW, but I also believe the transmission/drive train/system is more efficient in the Gen1 cars (the resistance heater notwithstanding). I don't have any hard data to support this, but I easily exceed the 150 mile range "spec" of the Gen2 car in my Gen1 car with the 40 kWh battery pack.
 
It is an interesting hypothesis. I believe the motor unit is very similar between all the cars, so my guess is that it is completely how you drive it.


One thing is for sure. In my 2013 Leaf I would very very rarely drive over 65mph. But in my Plus 70-75 is quite common when driving long distances now, so any efficiency comparison is difficult. I did do a 56mph test a few weeks ago, and my results were quite good on our S+.

https://youtu.be/b4K4qLD7Pcc
 
I believe the motor unit is very similar between all the cars, so my guess is that it is completely how you drive it.

From 2013 on, it's the same motor - they just push more amps through it. Electric motors are neat that way...
 
Aloha;

A few responses:

jjeff: heard great things about the Rav4 Prime, but wanted pure electric again. Volvo seats, quite nice, and my very recent experience between the XC40 and XC 60 is that the 60's seats are even nicer (perhaps a wee more comfortable and has memory 1 and 2 functions). Oddly enough, I'm sort of getting to use the XC 60's cockpit for some reason day 2. The interface on both 40 and 60 via the screen is pretty bad compared to the ease of the 2011 Leaf. It's really a PITA, no nice way of saying it.

Stanton: I've held a similar hypothesis and yet I don't know about the motor changes, though one contributor (LeftieBiker with many, many posts) has indicated nigh on the change. As I've alluded to, I'm not a slow driver, unless I'm in the city, then I'm a kitten, hear me 'mew.'

Reddy2: I ordered from Tennessee. If you're successful, I suggest you keep your old pack and sell it for solar backup parts which is what I did not do. The installer I used, as I mentioned is not worth going to, super shady, sketch, unreliable... keep adding adjectives. With what I know now, I could probably do it myself with a bit of help. In terms of doing it, lot of videos out there and the great Canbus programmer himself, Dala would point you in the right directions. You can also PM me and can give you more details if you'd like.

In terms of hardware, one needs a way to safely put the car on excellent ramps along with floor jack to lower / raise battery on. I recommend a 2013 and up for better compatibility and ostensibly less mileage. I erred in using a 70k one when I already had 40k one (liked the red look better, error of my youth).
 
jbsocdelica said:
Stanton: I've held a similar hypothesis and yet I don't know about the motor changes, though one contributor (LeftieBiker with many, many posts) has indicated nigh on the change. As I've alluded to, I'm not a slow driver, unless I'm in the city, then I'm a kitten, hear me 'mew.'
Yes, with key phrase (added back here) being: From 2013 on, it's the same motor...and I am talking about the 2011-2012 versions of the Leaf. I think the motor change alone supports my theory...although I don't have any data to support it other than my exceptional range with the (new) 40 kWh battery pack.
 
The motor change in 2013 was mainly so they could use less rare earth metals in the motor. This is also when they introduced that annoying pedal response that requires you to floor it, then back off a bit, then floor it again, to get maximum acceleration. Supposedly the 2013-2017 version of the motor is as fast to 60MPH as the 2011-2012 version, but it requires more effort, and has less torque off the line.
 
So, we're in our second week of the loaner car from Volvo (X60), which is also a bit glitchy (this with Apple Car Play)... Our experience is Volvo ride, with crappy electronics. But maybe that's the state of the art with computerie- cars these days. I'm digging the 2011 more and more....
 
I honestly don't understand the 'arms race' in car electronics. I guess the whiz-bang of it all is maybe what sells cars these days. Personally, when I see all that stuff I just think of what it would cost if it failed out of warranty. Kinda of reminds me of the old joke about how cars would be if they followed the same trajectory as PCs.

https://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/joke/crash.htm
 
I agree with Stanton--I believe the 2011/2012 motors were slightly more efficient due to the larger permanent magnets on their rotors. They also produce more torque and the electronics/inverter system gives full acceleration from a stop by just flooring the accelerator. My 2015 was nearly as quick 0-60 as my 2011 if I carefully modulated the accelerator pedal just right, but the 2011 was consistently quick by just flooring it (much more fun). My 2019 has twice the horsepower and more torque, but still requires careful accelerator pedal modulation to obtain best acceleration.

Regarding the "advances" in car electronics in recent years: The navigation systems in my 2011 and 2015 worked flawlessly for the duration of ownership, but the system in my 2019 periodically resets itself (requiring me to restore saved addresses and reset user preferences) and the volume control button is now failing. The touch screen on the 2019 is also very sensitive and must be carefully cleaned with nothing more than a damp cloth (water only) because glass/lens cleaners cause inadvertent menu actions.
 
GerryAZ said:
The navigation systems in my 2011 and 2015 worked flawlessly for the duration of ownership, but the system in my 2019 periodically resets itself (requiring me to restore saved addresses and reset user preferences) and the volume control button is now failing. The touch screen on the 2019 is also very sensitive and must be carefully cleaned with nothing more than a damp cloth (water only) because glass/lens cleaners cause inadvertent menu actions.

Being new to the newer "car play" type advances - I've found my Apple Car Play to have surprisingly few functions compared to the iPhone itself - and the few that are available are still easier and more functional on the iphone itself. Plus I find the Sirius XM features essentially useless (compared to similar iPhone features).

I was hoping there would be a similar satellite view of maps using the car play - that would be superior to the standard Nissan maps. These would not have been deal breakers - simply disappointments.
 
So XC40 doesn't have a climate control camping mode (maybe if you weight the front seat), and clearly no dog mode.

That means passenger alone doesn't have easy access to a/c when no driver is present.

And your pooch, well, not a good ending of that story.

One more gripe to my growing list: sometimes the charging cable (on the quick charge / Level III) because of mechanical misalignment / specs on car side, gets locked in and won't release.

This growing list to the terrible interface for controls and a super 'heavy' steering wheel.

Still enjoying it, but lots of caveats for the first gen machine. 2011 Leaf is looking better by the day!

(In picture is what the 'red' charge light of death looks like). Good luck getting the cable out then
 

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