CHAdeMO Urbanity

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SageBrush

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,959
Location
NM
A casual look at the US CHAdeMO map gives the immediate impression that the network is not only concentrated on the left and right coasts of the USA, but that it is urban. This matters to any LEAF owner who wants to use the car to take longish trips. I wanted to give the urbanity impression a less qualitative treatment so I downloaded from the AFDC website a table of the USA CHAdeMO network and found 1916 locations.
I then filtered for 24 hour public access and found 1598 locations

I then added to that table a column of population by zip code from census.gov
And sorted by zip code population. The highest population zip codes in the USA are about 100,000

Results:
There is 1 location in zip codes under 5,000 population
There are 10 locations in zip codes under 10,000 population
There are 109 locations in zip codes under 15,000 population
There are 231 locations in zip codes under 20,000 population

Note, these are locations. The data does not tell us how many plugs per location, maximum charging speeds, or functional status. There are many locations that are 25 kW maximum speed and classified as DCFC. I think most locations are two plugs but e.g. the EA network typically has one CHAdeMO plug per location. And lastly, out of service is far from uncommon. E.g in my city of Albuquerque, NM of the 5 locations 3 are not in operation and 1 is hobbled.

References:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wtrsDC4bTxDarvX21fT1Y7CyEh1wMbYrtlCHMLNJgHY/edit#gid=1717417266&fvid=1073564598 .If you want to play with the data, make a copy of the spreadsheet.
US Census data: https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?fpt=table
AFDC: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/analyze?fuel=ELEC&ev_connectors=CHADEMO&ev_levels=dc_fast
 
SageBrush said:
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/analyze?fuel=ELEC&ev_connectors=CHADEMO&ev_levels=dc_fast
a table of the USA CHAdeMO network and found 1916 locations.
Thanks for that. I'd always known about that site but never found it to be a good place to look for free L2 charging.

FWIW, I can safely say the L2 charging info is incomplete. Earlier, for kicks, I tried to look for private level 2 charging. Later, I just select both public and private level J1772 and downloaded the listing. It's definitely missing all of the L2 EVSEs at my work. We have dozens of them, all on ChargePoint but all set to be restricted to our employees only.

Nevertheless, the CHAdeMO info and the ability to get a listing is interesting. It never occurred to me to download any data.
 
Very nice. We have nothing slower than 100 amp Chademo's in WA BUT.... nearly all the Kia dealerships in Western WA have broken chargers and unresponsive hosts. The rest including Blink are generally up and running. There was a time a few years ago when a Blink going down meant several months before getting fixed. That does not appear to be the case any more. The 3 Blinks I check on regularly have been up and running consistently for more than a year now (one NEVER had repair lag issues)

I think WA beats the curve (along with OR) due to WCGH program with putting chademo's along the isolated rural routes.
 
Sorry to "fly-over" country. Long distance travel there for non-Tesla Superchargers is a pain at best, not possible at worst.

Many are concerned about the current and future state of CHAdeMO in North America. Not sure how much steam CHAdeMO has left here as Nissan is really the primary manufacturer making vehicles to use it in the U.S.. But in places like California it's not half bad and keeps getting better, currently without signs of stall speed. PlugShare is my favorite go-to and a quick look shows CHAdeMO keeps growing here and there are numerous sites "coming soon".

Although Tesla has many more charging stations at each location, CHAdeMO has many more locations in CA. It's true that CHAdeMO is more urban centric than Tesla, but still more than enough in CA that the major freeway/highway corridors are covered. The most important intrastate freeway/highways in CA: 5, 10, 15, 80, 99, and 101 are covered. That means a Leaf can work here as a primary vehicle for some or a secondary vehicle for many.

Also, as Tesla ownership increases from currently house centric (home charging is easy) to including more apartment dwellers (home charging is difficult or impossible), Tesla will need to increase its ratio more towards urban charging.

My biggest problem with non-Tesla charging stations here is not location or speed of charging, but that stations go down too often and maintenance is rarely quick.

Would like to pickup a CHAdeMO adapter for our Model 3 SR if one is released and the price is ok. Could be quite useful in CA.
 
The closest chademo to me is at my house.
Beyond that it's a few hours drive, way beyond the range of an old leaf. This is the reason I built my own free charging network in the next town over.
If I wanted the leaf to work for me I couldn't wait for other people to make it work. I would be waiting another 10 to 20 years.
The only public charging around here is RV parks registered on plug share and you have to bring your own evse or chademo.
 
The early charging network was a well-meaning attempt at bypassing the chicken-and-egg problem. As such it wasn't driven by actual need and maintenance is not necessarily an ongoing priority with whomever owns or operates them. The exception being Tesla.

Still waiting for some intelligence to emerge from other manufacturers and come cooperation and alliance with the Tesla network and charging standard. You ain't never going to see a satisfactory ChaDeMo network in the USA aside from a few isolated locales.
 
Nubo said:
The early charging network was a well-meaning attempt at bypassing the chicken-and-egg problem. As such it wasn't driven by actual need and maintenance is not necessarily an ongoing priority with whomever owns or operates them. The exception being Tesla.

Still waiting for some intelligence to emerge from other manufacturers and come cooperation and alliance with the Tesla network and charging standard. You ain't never going to see a satisfactory ChaDeMo network in the USA aside from a few isolated locales.
I've always imagined that to the extent it was planned (not much), the 24 kWh LEAF was the EV in mind as the consumer. The network gave confidence to owners worried about local travel and to an extent allowed owners to travel to the nearby town. The LEAF has always been thought of as the second, commuting vehicle of the family and rightly so. I STILL think of it that way and it makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately the American public did not agree and Nissan decided to become a pariah.

Now that larger battery LEAFs are on the horizon, the CHAdeMO network is an orphan: the large battery LEAFs will very rarely if ever use it for commuter duties and the network is not designed or capable of supporting robust long distance travel. This is very much an example of a first mover company not benefitting from their early gamble and in fact ending up with a white elephant. Though I think we will eventually come to agree that the bottom-up market plan was (and is) flawed.
 
I agree the network was first set up and then expanded to alleviate fears of early adopter commuters who might need public charging to extend their trips on occaision and longer-range EVs reduce the need in urban areas (except for those without access to charging at home). I use DCQC stations in the Phoenix area to facilitate driving the Leaf on trips across the large urban area, but there is no chance for out of town trips. At one time, there were a couple of stations between Phoenix and Tucson so that trips were possible at normal highway speed on I-10. Unfortunately, there was not enough redundancy to account for a charger in use or out of service and at least one has since been shut down. I will be forced to drive another vehicle for across town trips or buy a longer-range EV if CHAdeMO stations disappear from the urban area. We have Blink and EVgo stations here. They both have 2 cords, but can only charge one car at a time. Blink units are strictly CHAdeMO while EVgo units have CCS. There are so many Bolts and BMW i3s using the CCS units now that I often need to wait to charge at EVgo stations. Personally, I think CHAdeMO is a more robust connector and interface, but it will likely fade away in the USA (much like the Beta/VHS battle only with higher stakes for drivers that stand to lose much more than the cost of a video player).
 
Talking from experience on my own long distance driving, when I went on a 700 mile trip the only CHAdeMO stations I used and existed were near my destination. Basically I only used them because where I stayed didn't offer a place to charge, so I'd hop on a CHAdeMO at the beginning of the day to make it to my appointments. On the highway I had to use both level 2 and level 1 charging between here and there.

So I see the benefit of having both CHAdeMO (or any DC quick charging depending on your vehicle) both between home and destination and at your destination, unless your destination offers L2 for all night.
 
SageBrush said:
Oilpan4 said:
I built my own free charging network in the next town over.
That is a story I want to hear.
It was pretty easy.
First one is my rental house. When I did the first phase of updating the electrical in 2011 I added a 30 amp circuit to the garage for a dryer. Then later on I added a super convenient 20 amp charging circuit right at the driveway for easy use when putting in a split air conditioner.
Then when I rented it, out part of the agreement I can charge when I need to. I only used it 1 time other then when I was working on the house.
One of my friends wanted some out door circuits for pool, plug in weed eater, bug zapper, radio, ect. I added a 240v 6-20 receptacle for my self by the drive way, the price I charge when I need to.
Another friend I did some free electrical work and the agreement was I can charge there when I need to, they got a free hot tub electrical setup. And I used it a few times this winter.

Then another one for my wifes family, added some circuits and added one for my self. A 10-30 receptacle off the outside main panel on the side of the house. Super easy to install and access. Only used it once so far.
I did this incase one of them moves or if we ever end up selling the rental house.
 
Between owning the property (or having understanding relatives) and being able to DIY, that certainly makes for easy and cheap L2 installation. I wanted L2 at both our home too, although I paid for the installation. The first home I wanted to watch someone who knew what they were doing, and our second home had a more complicated setup I shied away from.
 
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