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Re: Nissan L1 EVSE third-party upgrade to both 120V and 240V

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:43 am
by TomT
You could plan on doubling the price at least if it had to undergo UL testing. However, I don't believe that a conversion of this type requires UL certification regardless. Consider it akin to a "repair..."
smkettner wrote:This is all very interesting. There have been many comments on new EVSEs to check if they are UL compliant... will the conversion meet UL specs?

Re: Nissan L1 EVSE third-party upgrade to both 120V and 240V

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:54 am
by garygid
This device is UL "listed" for 120v use. Once modified in any substantial way, like running 240v through it, the UL "listing" no longer covers it.

However, the unmodified unit could be defective and still have a UL Listing. The modified version could be "quite safe" and just not have a "Listing" because it has not been submitted (substantial cost and delay).

Re: Nissan L1 EVSE third-party upgrade to both 120V and 240V

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:37 am
by Spies
garygid wrote:1. The 2011 LEAF's max charging current draw appears to be just shy of 16 amps. Thus about 3800 watts (not just 3300 watts) when using 240v source.
Thank you for pointing that out! Seems drees's estimation of around 75% of "normal" L2 charge seems about right.

Re: Nissan L1 EVSE third-party upgrade to both 120V and 240V

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:41 am
by EVDRIVER
Spies wrote:
garygid wrote:1. The 2011 LEAF's max charging current draw appears to be just shy of 16 amps. Thus about 3800 watts (not just 3300 watts) when using 240v source.
Thank you for pointing that out! Seems drees's estimation of around 75% of "normal" L2 charge seems about right.

Output is about 2.88kw in a perfect setting. Upgrading to 16A raises other issues besides a new pilot in the micro controller, this also does the light controls and GFI control so it would be a major redesign. Not worth the modification.

Re: Nissan L1 EVSE third-party upgrade to both 120V and 240V

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:22 am
by EVDRIVER
garygid wrote:This device is UL "listed" for 120v use. Once modified in any substantial way, like running 240v through it, the UL "listing" no longer covers it.

However, the unmodified unit could be defective and still have a UL Listing. The modified version could be "quite safe" and just not have a "Listing" because it has not been submitted (substantial cost and delay).

Technically, once the case is open the UL listing is void. Same for a basic repair on a TV. Gary's comments are correct.

Re: Nissan L1 EVSE third-party upgrade to both 120V and 240V

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:56 am
by DarkStar
EVDRIVER wrote:
garygid wrote:This device is UL "listed" for 120v use. Once modified in any substantial way, like running 240v through it, the UL "listing" no longer covers it.

However, the unmodified unit could be defective and still have a UL Listing. The modified version could be "quite safe" and just not have a "Listing" because it has not been submitted (substantial cost and delay).

Technically, once the case is open the UL listing is void. Same for a basic repair on a TV. Gary's comments are correct.
Sometimes I think when I just look at something I void any and all certifications it may or may not have had... :D

Re: Nissan L1 EVSE third-party upgrade to both 120V and 240V

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:22 pm
by garygid
Many UL Listed items have to be opened for cleaning, filter changing, etc.
So, I did not think that "just opening" any case voids that product's listing.

Perhaps cases marked as "No User-Serviceable Parts Inside" puts a case in a different category?

Many modifications, even small, would cause the Listing on the "stock" item to no longer apply to the item, especially if they in any way impact the high-voltage (over about 25 volts?) parts of the equipment.

However, proper (authorized by the OEM?) service, repair, or upgrade, using properly rated replcement parts, should not make the item "unlisted", I would think. Am I wrong?

Re: Nissan L1 EVSE third-party upgrade to both 120V and 240V

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:53 pm
by EVDRIVER
garygid wrote:Many UL Listed items have to be opened for cleaning, filter changing, etc.
So, I did not think that "just opening" any case voids that product's listing.

Perhaps cases marked as "No User-Serviceable Parts Inside" puts a case in a different category?

Many modifications, even small, would cause the Listing on the "stock" item to no longer apply to the item, especially if they in any way impact the high-voltage (over about 25 volts?) parts of the equipment.

However, proper (authorized by the OEM?) service, repair, or upgrade, using properly rated replcement parts, should not make the item "unlisted", I would think. Am I wrong?
\\We are speaking in technicalities here but if you repair one part on a TV it would need to be tested again technically. Opening a "sealed" case can be a tech violation, perhaps even changing a lamp shade on a lamp. You get the picture.

Re: Nissan L1 EVSE third-party upgrade to both 120V and 240V

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:00 pm
by garygid
Does that mean that if the OEM gets one resistor from a different supplier, the original Listing no longer applies?

Legally, what is the "Listing" law (if you already know)?

Or, are you just guessing?

Most items can be repaired and serviced, right?

Re: Nissan L1 EVSE third-party upgrade to both 120V and 240V

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:32 pm
by DeaneG
Typically, the manufacturer maintains a list of controlled components which are critical to the safety listing of each product. These components must be replaced with an identical component to maintain the listing, or the manufacturer has to notify UL and ask that the product's report be amended to include the alternative part. UL may want to re-test a portion of the product's behavior to verify safety.

At least this is how it works when the product is manufactured.