L1 vs L2 charging cost

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Kbhag63

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
5
I couldn’t find any forum info on my question so:

With regards to cost to charge, is it less expensive to use an L1 charger from 40% to 100% or an L2 from 40% to 100%?

The L1 takes longer but at lower voltage, L2 is faster but at higher voltage.

Thanks in advance!

Ken, CT
 
L2 is generally more efficient than L1, as I understand it. There is overhead involved in powering the coolant pump. Running the pump for 3 hours instead of 12 is a savings.
 
You pay for Kilowatt hours, regardless of voltage.
As Nubo said, L2 tends to be more efficient than L1 so in general you'll pay less if you use L2.
 
Kbhag63 said:
With regards to cost to charge, is it less expensive to use an L1 charger from 40% to 100% or an L2 from 40% to 100%?
Charging efficiency is better at the higher voltage. Using L1 would cost you more in electricity.

See https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/SteadyStateLoadCharacterization2012Leaf.pdf and https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/SteadyStateLoadCharacterization2015Leaf.pdf, for example.
 
A quick Google search reveals that Connecticut has cheap electricity rates, so use whatever charging rate you prefer and don't worry about the efficiency.

It's pretty hard to justify the expenditure for an L2 EVSE, if your only consideration is saving money because buying and installing the L2 EVSE will cost you at least $1000.

At $0.10 per kWh, if you assume that L1 charging is 20% more efficient than L2 charging, then you would save $0.02 per kWh. So, after 50,000 kWhs of charging at L2, you would finally break even on the L2 EVSE (or roughly after 2500 full charges on your LEAF).

The main reason to charge at L2 is for convenience, which for me is worth the expense
 
Kbhag63 said:
I couldn’t find any forum info on my question so:

With regards to cost to charge, is it less expensive to use an L1 charger from 40% to 100% or an L2 from 40% to 100%?

The L1 takes longer but at lower voltage, L2 is faster but at higher voltage.

Thanks in advance!

Ken, CT

At the very least; you should mention your LEAF battery size, your utility rates and profile (TOU?)


Level 2 is cheaper by roughly 15% but that isn't really the important issue. L1 can run OVER a day to charge your car verses half a night on L2.

So now it becomes a matter of convenience and usability. L2 prices are dropping. Costco has a good deal for under $400. It will take decades to get that $400 back if your rates are reasonable but your stress level will be much lower.
 
I agree that L1 charging times are a joke. L1 only works for short trips. I have one of the few cars that charge at 40A. 10KWH really beats the default L1 8A or even 12A at 129V.. A THING THAT REALLY GETS ME IS THE PERSON THAT BUYS A HIGHER CURRENT EVSE THINKING IT WILL CHARGE FASTER. AS LONG AS EQUAL OR MORE CURRENT IS AVAILABLE THE CAR SETS THE CHARGE RATE. tN TH CASE OF THE LEAF IT IS EITHER 16A OR 27.5A. FOR EXAMPLE A 40A EVSE IS WASTED MONEY. 30A IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

At 240 the fixed overhead of the cooling pumps fades. Since it is fixed then any scheme like L2 charging minibuses it. It still exists but it it as much smaller percent of L2. L3 is yet another ball game. Its safety protocols are very real. L3 bypasses the car charger and it charges the battery directly. I assume it still uses the cooling pumps since it generates quite a bit of heat.
 
GlennD said:
A THING THAT REALLY GETS ME IS THE PERSON THAT BUYS A HIGHER CURRENT EVSE THINKING IT WILL CHARGE FASTER. AS LONG AS EQUAL OR MORE CURRENT IS AVAILABLE THE CAR SETS THE CHARGE RATE. tN TH CASE OF THE LEAF IT IS EITHER 16A OR 27.5A. FOR EXAMPLE A 40A EVSE IS WASTED MONEY. 30A IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

There's also a school of thought (that I've also seen on this very forum) that if you can, go with a higher amperage circuit and EVSE. While it won't make any 2018 or earlier Leaf charge faster, as battery size increases I suspect on board charging speeds will increase as well, to keep charging times reasonable. If Elon finally releases the "$35k" Model 3, such charging speeds will become a reality for more people.
 
RonDawg said:
GlennD said:
A THING THAT REALLY GETS ME IS THE PERSON THAT BUYS A HIGHER CURRENT EVSE THINKING IT WILL CHARGE FASTER. AS LONG AS EQUAL OR MORE CURRENT IS AVAILABLE THE CAR SETS THE CHARGE RATE. tN TH CASE OF THE LEAF IT IS EITHER 16A OR 27.5A. FOR EXAMPLE A 40A EVSE IS WASTED MONEY. 30A IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

There's also a school of thought (that I've also seen on this very forum) that if you can, go with a higher amperage circuit and EVSE. While it won't make any 2018 or earlier Leaf charge faster, as battery size increases I suspect on board charging speeds will increase as well, to keep charging times reasonable. If Elon finally releases the "$35k" Model 3, such charging speeds will become a reality for more people.

I can see future proofing to some extent. Tesla's no longer come with 40A EVSE's. There was some problem with the current. I do not follow Tesla so I do not know any details.

I userd my 40A EVSE with my 30A VW with 10A wasted.
 
GlennD said:
RonDawg said:
GlennD said:
A THING THAT REALLY GETS ME IS THE PERSON THAT BUYS A HIGHER CURRENT EVSE THINKING IT WILL CHARGE FASTER. AS LONG AS EQUAL OR MORE CURRENT IS AVAILABLE THE CAR SETS THE CHARGE RATE. tN TH CASE OF THE LEAF IT IS EITHER 16A OR 27.5A. FOR EXAMPLE A 40A EVSE IS WASTED MONEY. 30A IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

There's also a school of thought (that I've also seen on this very forum) that if you can, go with a higher amperage circuit and EVSE. While it won't make any 2018 or earlier Leaf charge faster, as battery size increases I suspect on board charging speeds will increase as well, to keep charging times reasonable. If Elon finally releases the "$35k" Model 3, such charging speeds will become a reality for more people.

I can see future proofing to some extent. Tesla's no longer come with 40A EVSE's. There was some problem with the current. I do not follow Tesla so I do not know any details.

I userd my 40A EVSE with my 30A VW with 10A wasted.

I think that limit only applies if you're using a Tesla-supplied portable EVSE. If you hook up to a J1772 you should be able to charge up to the max the Tesla is capable of or the EVSE is capable of, whichever is lower.

Looking at Clipper Creek, an HCS-40 (32 amp) is only $70 cheaper than the HCS-50 (40 amp). Assuming your electrical system can already handle an added 50 amp circuit, $70 is cheap for that kind of future proofing. The cost of the thicker wire and higher amp breaker isn't all that much. Now stepping up to an HCS-60 (48 amp) is too much unless you have, or are about to get, a car that can take advantage of that.
 
I changed out my J1772 cable for a 40A Quick Charge Power unit. Since I used the old 30A cable on an OpenEVSE I was building the cost was nominal. Otherwise 30A would have been fine but you know how it is. The car could do 40A so I had to have it.
 
RonDawg said:
GlennD said:
A THING THAT REALLY GETS ME IS THE PERSON THAT BUYS A HIGHER CURRENT EVSE THINKING IT WILL CHARGE FASTER. AS LONG AS EQUAL OR MORE CURRENT IS AVAILABLE THE CAR SETS THE CHARGE RATE. tN TH CASE OF THE LEAF IT IS EITHER 16A OR 27.5A. FOR EXAMPLE A 40A EVSE IS WASTED MONEY. 30A IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

There's also a school of thought (that I've also seen on this very forum) that if you can, go with a higher amperage circuit and EVSE. While it won't make any 2018 or earlier Leaf charge faster, as battery size increases I suspect on board charging speeds will increase as well, to keep charging times reasonable. If Elon finally releases the "$35k" Model 3, such charging speeds will become a reality for more people.

Agreed. Soon enough, 9.6 KW will the be the standard "home" speed
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
RonDawg said:
GlennD said:
A THING THAT REALLY GETS ME IS THE PERSON THAT BUYS A HIGHER CURRENT EVSE THINKING IT WILL CHARGE FASTER. AS LONG AS EQUAL OR MORE CURRENT IS AVAILABLE THE CAR SETS THE CHARGE RATE. tN TH CASE OF THE LEAF IT IS EITHER 16A OR 27.5A. FOR EXAMPLE A 40A EVSE IS WASTED MONEY. 30A IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

There's also a school of thought (that I've also seen on this very forum) that if you can, go with a higher amperage circuit and EVSE. While it won't make any 2018 or earlier Leaf charge faster, as battery size increases I suspect on board charging speeds will increase as well, to keep charging times reasonable. If Elon finally releases the "$35k" Model 3, such charging speeds will become a reality for more people.
Agreed. Soon enough, 9.6 KW will the be the standard "home" speed
Re: the bolded part, why do you say that?

Per https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/onboard-charger, mid-range 3 (starts at $46K, was $45K fora few days has been shipping since early Nov 2018) has only a 32 amp OBC. Standard range will only be 32 amps, as well. So... 7.68 kW?
 
cwerdna said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
RonDawg said:
There's also a school of thought (that I've also seen on this very forum) that if you can, go with a higher amperage circuit and EVSE. While it won't make any 2018 or earlier Leaf charge faster, as battery size increases I suspect on board charging speeds will increase as well, to keep charging times reasonable. If Elon finally releases the "$35k" Model 3, such charging speeds will become a reality for more people.
Agreed. Soon enough, 9.6 KW will the be the standard "home" speed
Re: the bolded part, why do you say that?

Per https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/onboard-charger, mid-range 3 (been shipping since early Nov 2018) has only a 32 amp OBC. Standard range will only be 32 amps, as well. So... 7.68 kW?

TOU. Just because Tesla does it, doesn't make it right...by a long shot. We already have Musk making "just plug it in" statements that will be taken the wrong way and was quite frankly highly irresponsible without adding several disclaimers which he didn't.
 
I had a diesel powered car once and could fill the tank with the fast commercial truck pumps. The diesel cost the same.

Same with electricity. L2 is a bit more efficient. but in the end you have a 24, 30 or 40kwh battery. If you fill it from empty to full you can't add more than that. Electricity won't spill out all over the ground in puddles if you try to overcharge your car.
 
alozzy said:
Time to abandon this post, as the OP @Kbhag63 hasn't bothered to post back since the initial post...
At least it's better than some other threads where the poster doesn't even return to the site.

http://mynissanleaf.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25887 currently says "Last active: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:01 pm".
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
RonDawg said:
GlennD said:
A THING THAT REALLY GETS ME IS THE PERSON THAT BUYS A HIGHER CURRENT EVSE THINKING IT WILL CHARGE FASTER. AS LONG AS EQUAL OR MORE CURRENT IS AVAILABLE THE CAR SETS THE CHARGE RATE. tN TH CASE OF THE LEAF IT IS EITHER 16A OR 27.5A. FOR EXAMPLE A 40A EVSE IS WASTED MONEY. 30A IS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

There's also a school of thought (that I've also seen on this very forum) that if you can, go with a higher amperage circuit and EVSE. While it won't make any 2018 or earlier Leaf charge faster, as battery size increases I suspect on board charging speeds will increase as well, to keep charging times reasonable. If Elon finally releases the "$35k" Model 3, such charging speeds will become a reality for more people.

Agreed. Soon enough, 9.6 KW will the be the standard "home" speed
My Tesla Model 3 LR has a max 48 Amp OBC but IIRC the less expensive Model 3 MR and SR are 32 Amp.
This works out to 11.5 and 7.7 kW, respectively. I don't expect to ever bother upgrading my current 32 Amp (sustained) EVSE at home but I'll be glad for 11.5 kW on the road if I ever need to use an L2 destination charger.
 
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