DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1685
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon May 11, 2020 6:31 am

I do agree that you need to sell substantial amounts of power to just break even on the maintenance of the stations. Even at 100-150% mark up (.20/kWh) at commercial power rates, you are only making about $2-$3 dollars over power cost for most "fill ups", and utilization has a ways to go to make the business model whole.

I still find it funny that consumers sound outraged at the prices for EA, considering they are a convenience. As Bolt & Leaf EV owners are generally fundamentally....thrifty, I agree, its hard to believe they will push enough money into the system to sustain the infrastructure. Telsla owners are generally willing to pay the premium for the service, and the EA stops do represent additional convenience to the super chargers. But if the service is choppy (ex. only one Chademo available), then that will diminish their ability to pull in that traffic.

Guess what I am saying is that they should add the 2nd handle, offer an adapter at every station (and advertise that), and up the price.
2019 S Plus (98.6% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.6% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh

WetEV
Posts: 3748
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon May 11, 2020 6:37 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:31 am
Guess what I am saying is that they should add the 2nd handle, offer an adapter at every station (and advertise that), and up the price.
Upping the price is a non-starter. Tesla subsidizes their superchargers, and EA has to compete with that.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

WetEV
Posts: 3748
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon May 11, 2020 9:02 am

15606 Emerald Way
Bowie, MD 20716

Plugshare says 1 CCS station and J1772 only working today.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14819
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon May 11, 2020 11:22 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:33 am
There is precious little money to be made in reselling electricity to EV drivers. I'm willing to bet that EA's margins are razor-thin or (more likely) negative on each kWh they sell. Even with eventual higher usage rates to better amortize the demand charges, the margins will be low.

The only way that Tesla has been able to justify the huge expense of quick charging is as an marketing expense. Yes, it is an expense, not an income.

In the next few years, VW hopes to sell large numbers of (CSS-equipped) EVs. The EA network helps them sell those cars in much the same way as the Supercharger network helps Tesla sell cars.

So tell me again why EA (VW) would go out of their way to add more CHAdeMO handles, which only helps the competitors (Nissan, Tesla) sell cars?
Volta. But then again, VW is smart enough to know an advantage when they see one.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2084
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon May 11, 2020 12:38 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:31 am
Telsla owners are generally willing to pay the premium for the service, and the EA stops do represent additional convenience to the super chargers. But if the service is choppy (ex. only one Chademo available), then that will diminish their ability to pull in that traffic.
I don't see Tesla owners pumping much money into the EA network. They already have their own network which is superior in cost (to them) and convenience. I know many Tesla drivers. Very few of them even own an adapter, and those that do use it only on the occasional free chargers, not the EA chargers. I have also traveled a lot in my Bolt. Not once have I run across a Tesla driver at an EA station. I've seen more Bolts than all other combined, but I also see I-Paces, e-Trons, Niros, and Konas out there. I've seen a Leaf or two, but they are few and far between. Far more CCS cars use EA than CHAdeMO. That imbalance will only grow as VW (and GM) release their upcoming lines of EVs.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

danrjones
Posts: 660
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon May 11, 2020 12:41 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 12:38 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:31 am
Telsla owners are generally willing to pay the premium for the service, and the EA stops do represent additional convenience to the super chargers. But if the service is choppy (ex. only one Chademo available), then that will diminish their ability to pull in that traffic.
I don't see Tesla owners pumping much money into the EA network. They already have their own network which is superior in cost (to them) and convenience. I know many Tesla drivers. Very few of them even own an adapter, and those that do use it only on the occasional free chargers, not the EA chargers. I have also traveled a lot in my Bolt. Not once have I run across a Tesla driver at an EA station. I've seen more Bolts than all other combined, but I also see I-Paces, e-Trons, Niros, and Konas out there. I've seen a Leaf or two, but they are few and far between. Far more CCS cars use EA than CHAdeMO. That imbalance will only grow as VW (and GM) release their upcoming lines of EVs.
I'm looking forward to seeing the VW iD4 and I had heard Kia was supposed to have a suit of EVs slowing releasing, including one that might have an 800v architecture. Can EA support 800v? Can anyone else?
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2084
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon May 11, 2020 1:09 pm

EA can support 800V. That's what the Porche Taycan uses to charge at 320kW.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

WetEV
Posts: 3748
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon May 11, 2020 1:10 pm

danrjones wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 12:41 pm
I'm looking forward to seeing the VW iD4 and I had heard Kia was supposed to have a suit of EVs slowing releasing, including one that might have an 800v architecture. Can EA support 800v? Can anyone else?
EA supports 800V widely.

Petro-Canada seems to have a bunch.
EVgo has a few stations that do. Probably others I don't know about.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

GRA
Posts: 11957
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Electrify America Network

Mon May 11, 2020 6:09 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 1:09 pm
EA can support 800V. That's what the Porche Taycan uses to charge at 320kW.

Actually 270 kW max for the Taycan. IIRR, the only way to get the full 350 kW is with a 1kV pack, which no one has yet. Somebody, forget who, was talking about using 900V.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

danrjones
Posts: 660
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Electrify America Network

Tue May 12, 2020 6:13 am

I thought EA was good with 800v.

What about others like chargepoint, normally 50kw stations? Can they even do 800v and you end up at half the amps? Or not at all?

I was just thinking how nice an ev RV would be with about 300 kwh or more of batteries. Good candidates for 800v or even higher.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

Return to “EVSE / Charging Equipment and Networks”