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Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:27 pm
by jjeff
GlennD wrote:You can verify the settings using Nick Sayer's Simulator II. It reads the pilot and reports the current, frequency, and duty cycle. I verified the default 8A and the optional 12A on my Mercedes B EV Lear L1 EVSE. It was spot on. OpenEVSE's are correct in current but the frequency is 998 HZ instead of 1000HZ. It falls within tolerance though.
I use a clamp on Fluke ammeter which I figure is pretty much spot on. All my adjustable EVSEs draw an actual 1a less than they say so maybe it's my vehicle? In the case of the Zencar EVSE for example it shows it's set for 20a but the actual draw is a tad under 19a, same thing with my EVSEupgrade EVSE, when it blinks 20 times(meaning it's set for 20a) the actual draw is more like 19a. Again I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else, you wouldn't want it the other way around, that is drawing more than set for.

Webeleafowners, no you can go up to at least 27.5a @ 120v with a 6.6kw Leaf charger, 12a is the max for the 3.6kw charger and my Juicebox has no problem outputting the full 27.5a @ 120v on my '13 Leaf with the 6.6kw charger package.

Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:46 pm
by GlennD
jjeff wrote:
GlennD wrote:You can verify the settings using Nick Sayer's Simulator II. It reads the pilot and reports the current, frequency, and duty cycle. I verified the default 8A and the optional 12A on my Mercedes B EV Lear L1 EVSE. It was spot on. OpenEVSE's are correct in current but the frequency is 998 HZ instead of 1000HZ. It falls within tolerance though.
I use a clamp on Fluke ammeter which I figure is pretty much spot on. All my adjustable EVSEs draw an actual 1a less than they say so maybe it's my vehicle? In the case of the Zencar EVSE for example it shows it's set for 20a but the actual draw is a tad under 19a, same thing with my EVSEupgrade EVSE, when it blinks 20 times(meaning it's set for 20a) the actual draw is more like 19a. Again I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else, you wouldn't want it the other way around, that is drawing more than set for.

Webeleafowners, no you can go up to at least 27.5a @ 120v with a 6.6kw Leaf charger, 12a is the max for the 3.6kw charger and my Juicebox has no problem outputting the full 27.5a @ 120v on my '13 Leaf with the 6.6kw charger package.
I also have a few Clamo on's. An Analog and a digital peak reading ones calibrated in RMS and a true RMS meter. They read nearly the same since the car's charger is corrected to a sine wave instead of the actual square wave of wave of a switching supply.

The only car charger that I have measured the waveform and current draw was my 2012 Leaf. At 16A it was a pretty good sine wave. at 10A it was a triangle wave with rounded points. I assume from that at full power clamp on amp meters are accurate.

The meters I frequently use are 1% at 100A. That means that they can be off 1A and still meet specifications. They are typically very close at 30A. For $10 shipped I do not know how the Chinese do it. I have not used any clamp on's in ages.

Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:57 pm
by webeleafowners
jjeff wrote:
GlennD wrote:You can verify the settings using Nick Sayer's Simulator II. It reads the pilot and reports the current, frequency, and duty cycle. I verified the default 8A and the optional 12A on my Mercedes B EV Lear L1 EVSE. It was spot on. OpenEVSE's are correct in current but the frequency is 998 HZ instead of 1000HZ. It falls within tolerance though.
I use a clamp on Fluke ammeter which I figure is pretty much spot on. All my adjustable EVSEs draw an actual 1a less than they say so maybe it's my vehicle? In the case of the Zencar EVSE for example it shows it's set for 20a but the actual draw is a tad under 19a, same thing with my EVSEupgrade EVSE, when it blinks 20 times(meaning it's set for 20a) the actual draw is more like 19a. Again I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else, you wouldn't want it the other way around, that is drawing more than set for.

Webeleafowners, no you can go up to at least 27.5a @ 120v with a 6.6kw Leaf charger, 12a is the max for the 3.6kw charger and my Juicebox has no problem outputting the full 27.5a @ 120v on my '13 Leaf with the 6.6kw charger package.
Hmmm. I'll have to check it out again. We have a Nema 14-50 240 volt circuit in the garage at home so no problem getting the full 27 amp on the Leaf at home. But when we are on the road with the motorhome with the smart ED (which has a 3.3 KW charger) we only have access to a TT30 plug on our property down south. I can not get it to go over 12 amps when it is on this circuit and when I asked Juicebox about this they said it couldn't be done because of the J1772 format. Maybe I misunderstood but either way I can not get the Juice box above that on a 120 volt 30 amp circuit. When it is on the 240 volt circuit it charges at the 33 KW rate. Any thoughts. Thanks in advance.

Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:03 pm
by GlennD
By the way, both the leaf's and my current eGolf 's only care about the maximum current. They could happily charge at 24A at a 120V 30A RV socket. They do follow the pilot so they only charge at 120VAC 12A but they are quite happy breaking the 120VAC J1772 specifications.

Since I do not charge anywhere except my garage I charge at 240VAC since it is over twice as fast. I think the CCS would be more convenient than charging at a RV park.

To test this I forced my OpenEVSE to use the L2 table since the distinction is purely cosmetic.

Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:35 pm
by alozzy
I honestly don't know, but hopefully I'll find that out when I stay at an RV park in the summer and they have a TT30 receptacle to test with - or not ;) If all they have is a 14-50R then I won't complain!

Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:54 pm
by jjeff
webeleafowners wrote:
jjeff wrote:
GlennD wrote:You can verify the settings using Nick Sayer's Simulator II. It reads the pilot and reports the current, frequency, and duty cycle. I verified the default 8A and the optional 12A on my Mercedes B EV Lear L1 EVSE. It was spot on. OpenEVSE's are correct in current but the frequency is 998 HZ instead of 1000HZ. It falls within tolerance though.
I use a clamp on Fluke ammeter which I figure is pretty much spot on. All my adjustable EVSEs draw an actual 1a less than they say so maybe it's my vehicle? In the case of the Zencar EVSE for example it shows it's set for 20a but the actual draw is a tad under 19a, same thing with my EVSEupgrade EVSE, when it blinks 20 times(meaning it's set for 20a) the actual draw is more like 19a. Again I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else, you wouldn't want it the other way around, that is drawing more than set for.

Webeleafowners, no you can go up to at least 27.5a @ 120v with a 6.6kw Leaf charger, 12a is the max for the 3.6kw charger and my Juicebox has no problem outputting the full 27.5a @ 120v on my '13 Leaf with the 6.6kw charger package.
Hmmm. I'll have to check it out again. We have a Nema 14-50 240 volt circuit in the garage at home so no problem getting the full 27 amp on the Leaf at home. But when we are on the road with the motorhome with the smart ED (which has a 3.3 KW charger) we only have access to a TT30 plug on our property down south. I can not get it to go over 12 amps when it is on this circuit and when I asked Juicebox about this they said it couldn't be done because of the J1772 format. Maybe I misunderstood but either way I can not get the Juice box above that on a 120 volt 30 amp circuit. When it is on the 240 volt circuit it charges at the 33 KW rate. Any thoughts. Thanks in advance.
Yes I assume the Smart ED's 3.3kw charger is like Nissans in that it stops at 12a @ 120v, but again with the 6.6kw Leaf charger it can go to 27.5a on either 120v or 240v, assuming your EVSE can output that high on 120v . I just checked and even the current Juicebox's can, from emotorwerks site about the Juicebox:
" 100-250 VAC, single phase" note on my Juicebox it has separate memories for 120 and 240v, that is you can have L2(240v) set for 20a and L1(120v) set for 27a, which I find handy. My Zencar EVSE doesn't have separate memories so whenever you change one voltage it changes the other.

I think you'll find lots of misinformation about whether a particular L2 EVSE also works on L1, it's my belief it's more of a CYA thing, since L2 EVSEs often times go to 20 or even 30a they don't want JSP plugging his 20 or 30a L2 EVSE into a standard 15 or 20a receptacle. It's like they don't seem to even know of the existence of 30a 120v outlets(TT-30 being a prime example and at most campgrounds). Of course 240v is better(twice as fast) but 24a @ 120v is still twice as fast as a OEM Leaf EVSE and equal to 12a @ 240v.

Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:32 pm
by webeleafowners
jjeff wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:
jjeff wrote: I use a clamp on Fluke ammeter which I figure is pretty much spot on. All my adjustable EVSEs draw an actual 1a less than they say so maybe it's my vehicle? In the case of the Zencar EVSE for example it shows it's set for 20a but the actual draw is a tad under 19a, same thing with my EVSEupgrade EVSE, when it blinks 20 times(meaning it's set for 20a) the actual draw is more like 19a. Again I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else, you wouldn't want it the other way around, that is drawing more than set for.

Webeleafowners, no you can go up to at least 27.5a @ 120v with a 6.6kw Leaf charger, 12a is the max for the 3.6kw charger and my Juicebox has no problem outputting the full 27.5a @ 120v on my '13 Leaf with the 6.6kw charger package.
Hmmm. I'll have to check it out again. We have a Nema 14-50 240 volt circuit in the garage at home so no problem getting the full 27 amp on the Leaf at home. But when we are on the road with the motorhome with the smart ED (which has a 3.3 KW charger) we only have access to a TT30 plug on our property down south. I can not get it to go over 12 amps when it is on this circuit and when I asked Juicebox about this they said it couldn't be done because of the J1772 format. Maybe I misunderstood but either way I can not get the Juice box above that on a 120 volt 30 amp circuit. When it is on the 240 volt circuit it charges at the 33 KW rate. Any thoughts. Thanks in advance.
Yes I assume the Smart ED's 3.3kw charger is like Nissans in that it stops at 12a @ 120v, but again with the 6.6kw Leaf charger it can go to 27.5a on either 120v or 240v, assuming your EVSE can output that high on 120v . I just checked and even the current Juicebox's can, from emotorwerks site about the Juicebox:
" 100-250 VAC, single phase" note on my Juicebox it has separate memories for 120 and 240v, that is you can have L2(240v) set for 20a and L1(120v) set for 27a, which I find handy. My Zencar EVSE doesn't have separate memories so whenever you change one voltage it changes the other.

I think you'll find lots of misinformation about whether a particular L2 EVSE also works on L1, it's my belief it's more of a CYA thing, since L2 EVSEs often times go to 20 or even 30a they don't want JSP plugging his 20 or 30a L2 EVSE into a standard 15 or 20a receptacle. It's like they don't seem to even know of the existence of 30a 120v outlets(TT-30 being a prime example and at most campgrounds). Of course 240v is better(twice as fast) but 24a @ 120v is still twice as fast as a OEM Leaf EVSE and equal to 12a @ 240v.
Thanks for the interesting write up. Well, at least on my Smart ED connected to the Juicebox 40 Wifi that is NOT the case. So I am not sure where to go next, is it something on the smart that is doing the limiting or is it something on the Juicebox. Such a waste to have the 30TT able to supply 30 amp and not be able to use it. Any ideas where to start??

Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:38 pm
by jjeff
webeleafowners wrote:
jjeff wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:
Hmmm. I'll have to check it out again. We have a Nema 14-50 240 volt circuit in the garage at home so no problem getting the full 27 amp on the Leaf at home. But when we are on the road with the motorhome with the smart ED (which has a 3.3 KW charger) we only have access to a TT30 plug on our property down south. I can not get it to go over 12 amps when it is on this circuit and when I asked Juicebox about this they said it couldn't be done because of the J1772 format. Maybe I misunderstood but either way I can not get the Juice box above that on a 120 volt 30 amp circuit. When it is on the 240 volt circuit it charges at the 33 KW rate. Any thoughts. Thanks in advance.
Yes I assume the Smart ED's 3.3kw charger is like Nissans in that it stops at 12a @ 120v, but again with the 6.6kw Leaf charger it can go to 27.5a on either 120v or 240v, assuming your EVSE can output that high on 120v . I just checked and even the current Juicebox's can, from emotorwerks site about the Juicebox:
" 100-250 VAC, single phase" note on my Juicebox it has separate memories for 120 and 240v, that is you can have L2(240v) set for 20a and L1(120v) set for 27a, which I find handy. My Zencar EVSE doesn't have separate memories so whenever you change one voltage it changes the other.

I think you'll find lots of misinformation about whether a particular L2 EVSE also works on L1, it's my belief it's more of a CYA thing, since L2 EVSEs often times go to 20 or even 30a they don't want JSP plugging his 20 or 30a L2 EVSE into a standard 15 or 20a receptacle. It's like they don't seem to even know of the existence of 30a 120v outlets(TT-30 being a prime example and at most campgrounds). Of course 240v is better(twice as fast) but 24a @ 120v is still twice as fast as a OEM Leaf EVSE and equal to 12a @ 240v.
Thanks for the interesting write up. Well, at least on my Smart ED connected to the Juicebox 40 Wifi that is NOT the case. So I am not sure where to go next, is it something on the smart that is doing the limiting or is it something on the Juicebox. Such a waste to have the 30TT able to supply 30 amp and not be able to use it. Any ideas where to start??
Yes I believe it's your Smart ED limiting the 120v charging to 12a, just like the 3.3kw Leaf charger would. EVs will always charge at the lowest of either the EVSE maximum output or charger in the car, in the case of only charging at 12a @ 120v with your Juicebox it's the car limiting the charging to 12a. The same EVSE hooked to a 6.6kw Leaf charger would draw 27.5a @ 120v(or whatever you've set your Juicebox maximum output to but not more than 27.5 as that's the maximum the Leaf will accept).
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.

Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:54 pm
by webeleafowners
jjeff wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:
jjeff wrote: Yes I assume the Smart ED's 3.3kw charger is like Nissans in that it stops at 12a @ 120v, but again with the 6.6kw Leaf charger it can go to 27.5a on either 120v or 240v, assuming your EVSE can output that high on 120v . I just checked and even the current Juicebox's can, from emotorwerks site about the Juicebox:
" 100-250 VAC, single phase" note on my Juicebox it has separate memories for 120 and 240v, that is you can have L2(240v) set for 20a and L1(120v) set for 27a, which I find handy. My Zencar EVSE doesn't have separate memories so whenever you change one voltage it changes the other.

I think you'll find lots of misinformation about whether a particular L2 EVSE also works on L1, it's my belief it's more of a CYA thing, since L2 EVSEs often times go to 20 or even 30a they don't want JSP plugging his 20 or 30a L2 EVSE into a standard 15 or 20a receptacle. It's like they don't seem to even know of the existence of 30a 120v outlets(TT-30 being a prime example and at most campgrounds). Of course 240v is better(twice as fast) but 24a @ 120v is still twice as fast as a OEM Leaf EVSE and equal to 12a @ 240v.
Thanks for the interesting write up. Well, at least on my Smart ED connected to the Juicebox 40 Wifi that is NOT the case. So I am not sure where to go next, is it something on the smart that is doing the limiting or is it something on the Juicebox. Such a waste to have the 30TT able to supply 30 amp and not be able to use it. Any ideas where to start??
Yes I believe it's your Smart ED limiting the 120v charging to 12a, just like the 3.3kw Leaf charger would. EVs will always charge at the lowest of either the EVSE maximum output or charger in the car, in the case of only charging at 12a @ 120v with your Juicebox it's the car limiting the charging to 12a. The same EVSE hooked to a 6.6kw Leaf charger would draw 27.5a @ 120v(or whatever you've set your Juicebox maximum output to but not more than 27.5 as that's the maximum the Leaf will accept).
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.
Think I got it. Its not a power thing, (3.3K) its a current thing. Regardless of 240 or 120 it will limit to 12 amps (technically I think 11.7 or something like that) Is that right? Eg if I want the full three 3.3 KW I need to be on 240 volt.

Re: Duosida EVSE Just Arrived.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:34 pm
by jjeff
webeleafowners wrote:
jjeff wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:
Thanks for the interesting write up. Well, at least on my Smart ED connected to the Juicebox 40 Wifi that is NOT the case. So I am not sure where to go next, is it something on the smart that is doing the limiting or is it something on the Juicebox. Such a waste to have the 30TT able to supply 30 amp and not be able to use it. Any ideas where to start??
Yes I believe it's your Smart ED limiting the 120v charging to 12a, just like the 3.3kw Leaf charger would. EVs will always charge at the lowest of either the EVSE maximum output or charger in the car, in the case of only charging at 12a @ 120v with your Juicebox it's the car limiting the charging to 12a. The same EVSE hooked to a 6.6kw Leaf charger would draw 27.5a @ 120v(or whatever you've set your Juicebox maximum output to but not more than 27.5 as that's the maximum the Leaf will accept).
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.
Think I got it. Its not a power thing, (3.3K) its a current thing. Regardless of 240 or 120 it will limit to 12 amps (technically I think 11.7 or something like that) Is that right? Eg if I want the full three 3.3 KW I need to be on 240 volt.
Correct, to get 3.3kw you need to use 240v.