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Re: Arizona and other hot climates

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:58 am
by StrangerTides
Okay, good points Andy. We'll have to wait and see.

Re: Arizona and other hot climates

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:28 pm
by LeafHopper
Mark Perry, Nissan’s director of product planning for the United States, dismissed the importance of active thermal management.

“We don’t need thermal management for the U.S., but we are looking at the technology for Dubai and other locations like that…. We’ve gone on the record saying that the pack has a 70 to 80 percent capacity after 10 years,” he told Wired.com. Pressed on whether that is realistic for a passively cooled manganese oxide pack, Perry said yes.

“If it wasn’t our pack and it wasn’t our engineers and we weren’t working on it for 17 years … we wouldn’t make the statement if we weren’t confident in our ability to do so,” he said.

But we heard a different story from Paul Hawson, a Nissan product planner who worked on the Leaf, when the automaker brought the Leaf to the Wired offices in November. Asked why Nissan chose not to use active thermal management, Hawson explained the engineers experimented with it but found it required a central tunnel on top of the pack. That would intrude on cabin space, splitting the rear bench into two seats with a hump in the middle. Nissan, he said, decided to use only passive cooling to preserve passenger space.

Average High Temperature
Phoenix Abu Dhabi
June 103 103
July 105 105
August 103 106
September 99 102
October 88 95

Read More http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/01/ni ... z0qxXjyRgn

Re: Arizona and other hot climates

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:05 am
by planet4ever
Azrich wrote:I just sent an email to Marc Sobelman, the Arizona area manager for ECOtality and the EV Project, about these lastest findings. I also attached a copy of the slide from Nissan showing the mileage range of the four different driving scenarios. This data needs to be used when deciding where to place the fast chargers along the I-10 corridor between Tucson and Phoenix. I met Marc at the forum meeting they held in Tucson on May 25 and we have been emailing info. I hope they are aware of this new data or at least, now they are. If it is 105 degrees, I won't make it to Casa Grande where the first charger is planned. If 48 miles is all I can get along an interstate highway, I wouldn't want to stop for a 25 minute charging session every 40 minutes of driving or so.
See my post at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 2&start=93 where I point out that the concern may be considerably overblown.

Re: Arizona and other hot climates

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:14 am
by LeafHopper
Battery guru a skeptic about Leaf, Volt batteries 27-May-2010

Anderman of the Leaf battery. “Can you expect 10 years from the battery? Definitely not in Phoenix.
If it lasts three years, I’d be surprised.”

http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/8299

I hope he is wrong. If true, Phoenix will not have electric cars for a very long time.

Re: Arizona and other hot climates

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:00 am
by StrangerTides
LeafHopper wrote:...
Anderman of the Leaf battery. “Can you expect 10 years from the battery? Definitely not in Phoenix.
If it lasts three years, I’d be surprised.”
...
Interesting, but then if Nissan comes through with a warranty of 5(+?) years, then those of us in the hot states ought to be hoping it fails before then so we can get a free replacement and be good to go for another 5. 8-)

Re: Arizona and other hot climates

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:14 am
by evnow
LeafHopper wrote:Battery guru a skeptic about Leaf, Volt batteries 27-May-2010
This battery "guru" has a history of speaking ill of batteries. He seems to be an industry plant to influence CARB legislation.

http://plugsandcars.blogspot.com/2007_1 ... chive.html
His report at CARB in 2003 seemed to suggest the electric cars then on the road couldn't be functioning as well as they were.
...
Getting a government contract to express one's informed opinion about batteries is one thing. That Mr Anderman always find them wanting despite evidence to the contrary is, perhaps, his right. But spreading malicious falsehoods without asking for evidence from those in the know suggests a lack of professionalism that ought raise questions about his analysis and methodology.

Re: Arizona and other hot climates

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:24 am
by Azrich
Thanks, evnow, for this info on Anderman. I tried looking up info about him from the previous post. He made a presentation in May '10 and I wanted to see it. When I saw that his information would cost someone $7200 to have a copy, I thought maybe he works for the oil companies or someone who wants battery vehicles to fail. He would only share the table of contents of his $7200 study and book. No thanks.

His consulting firm, Total Battery Consulting Inc., works with Toyota and they are the major sponsor of the Advanced Automotive Batteries Conference held in May. This might help explain his position on Nissan's batteries.

Re: Arizona and other hot climates

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:18 pm
by johnr
StrangerTides wrote:Interesting, but then if Nissan comes through with a warranty of 5(+?) years, then those of us in the hot states ought to be hoping it fails before then so we can get a free replacement and be good to go for another 5. 8-)
I like how you think, but I'm sure it will be a prorated warranty ;)

Re: Arizona and other hot climates

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:40 pm
by LeafHopper
Thank you, evnow.

Re: Arizona and other hot climates

Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:53 pm
by evnow
LeafHopper wrote:But the statement about active battery temperature management being needed in hot climates was made by Nissan. And there seems to be no disagreement about the affect of A/C on EV Range.

The open questions are about battery durability and the power requirements of the A/C system.
This is what makes lease an attractive option. I wish we had lease options when buying HDTVs in early days :lol: