GroundLoop
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Re: New info for SDG&E installations: Now TWO experimental rates

Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:24 pm

garygid wrote:Frank,I an not in EVProject, but in SDG&E. I presume these two "experimental" rates will not be available to me, right?
Correct. These are EV Project Experimental rates.
I looked at the normal SDG&E total rates perhaps 4 months ago and it was not encouraging, and there were around $8 or so per month extra charge for the 2nd meter. Is that meter-charge still there?
You owe it to yourself to do some reading up.. starting with the SDG&E presentation from the October CCSE meeting, and their own rule-making communication with the CPUC.

There is no second-meter charge (or installation charge) for EV Project participants. If you elect to do EV-TOU on your own, with today's plans and no EV Project, then yes.

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Re: New info for SDG&E installations: Now TWO experimental rates

Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:28 pm

Randy wrote:Gary,
During my EVSE installation, I asked about the 120v suggestion you made above. I figured I might want to charge at 120v sometimes, perhaps in the driveway, and would like to get the lower rate for that.

Here's the difficulty: Not saying it couldn't be done, but the installation as currently designed, has a separate 50amp breaker in an enclosure next to the second meter that feeds the EVSE. There is currently no provision in the design or installation (or physical place) to install a 20amp breaker that would feed a 120v receptacle from the 2nd meter.

We'll have to think about how that could be done....

Randy
Randy, could you post a photo of your installation? I will likely be getting the second meter installed next month and would appreciate seeing what it is going to look like.
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garygid
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Re: New info for SDG&E installations: Now TWO experimental rates

Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:41 pm

I thought all the EVProject-installed charging stations
would be fully 24/7 "public-access"?

Where and how do I get an RFID to use these
EVProject NON-public charging stations?

Their web site does not seem to mention it.

Without access to those charging locations,
especially the QC stations in LA and San Diego,
the LEAF will be basically useless to me. :(
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garygid
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Re: New info for SDG&E installations: Now TWO experimental rates

Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:43 pm

Randy, the 50-amp breaker can feed an "EV" sub-panel
with a 40-amp 240v breaker and one (or more)
15 (or 20) amp 120v breakers in it, right?
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GroundLoop
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Re: New info for SDG&E installations: Now TWO experimental rates

Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:54 pm

garygid wrote:I thought all the EVProject-installed charging stations
would be fully 24/7 "public-access"?
Public access != anonymous.

The goal of the EV Project isn't to give out free power but to track, quantify, and study charging patterns.

The card rollout would be great questions for ECOtality, but my guess would be that it's similar to Chargepoint's network.. you go to a web page, fill out a form, get an access card. I don't see how this makes the Leaf useless, but you really should do your own more-thorough research if this is make-or-break to you.

After May 2011, the same stations will be pay-based, so you're going to need a card anyway.

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DaveEV
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Re: New info for SDG&E installations: Now TWO experimental rates

Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:56 pm

garygid wrote:Randy, the 50-amp breaker can feed an "EV" sub-panel
with a 40-amp 240v breaker and one (or more)
15 (or 20) amp 120v breakers in it, right?
Yes, that would be the typical way of doing it.

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Randy
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Re: New info for SDG&E installations: Now TWO experimental rates

Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:30 pm

I'll get some photos posted.

No doubt a 120v connection could be arranged. Just wanted to point out that by the time the installers come, the permit already has been pulled, the design is already complete, and the electricians already have the necessary parts for your installation. Adding a subpanel and additional breakers/circuits would complicate the whole deal at this point, and I think it would change the terms of the permit and the ECO installation.

It might make sense to add this feature later after the dust settles....

Randy

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garygid
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Re: New info for SDG&E installations: Now TWO experimental rates

Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:26 pm

I thought the 120v would be something to consider for future
bids and installations, not suggesting a last minute change.

Might be good for those planning to use L1 initially, but possibly
"graduate" to an L2 EVSE later.
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ttweed
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Re: New info for SDG&E installations: Now TWO experimental rates

Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:00 am

GroundLoop wrote: SDG&E is moving to drop the lowest ratio, the EV-TOU standard rate, and assign all participants one of the two higher ratios.

I view this as great news.
This is great news, Groundloop! I was worried about the crap-shoot of getting assigned the worst rate schedule randomly, which was no better than the current EV-TOU rates at $.14/KWH, but now it looks like everyone will have a great super-off-peak rate for the duration of the project. I just hope they don't jack us up at the end and start charging higher rates plus the extra monthly second meter charge again. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that these questions will be resolved before next year some time. I found this document on the CPUC site that indicates there will be another hearing in Feb. 2011 where an administrative law judge will rule on the recommendations, including the "second meter charge" methodology.

TT
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Re: New info for SDG&E installations: Now TWO experimental rates

Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:11 pm

GroundLoop wrote:There is no second-meter charge (or installation charge) for EV Project participants. If you elect to do EV-TOU on your own, with today's plans and no EV Project, then yes.
Thanks! This is good to know. We have solar panels under net metering which produce a slight surplus. I estimated our incremental electricity billing under each rate plan and converted it to an equivalent price per gallon of gasoline to fuel my current car. The worst rate plan looks very good, but some plans are much better.

Code: Select all

Equivalent $/gal of gasoline

          1 meter  2 meters
DR         $1.17
EV-TOU              $0.98
EV-TOU2    $1.24
EPEV-M     $1.45    $0.48
EPEV-H     $0.51    $0.38
(Your mileage may vary.) These calculations are based on measurements and estimates of how much electricity we produce and consume, by month of year and by hour of day; number of miles driven per year; miles per kWh of Leaf; MPG of current car; current baseline allocation; SDG&E definitions of summer and winter, peak, off-peak, and super off-peak.

I'm not sure what rate I'd choose if I weren't in the EV Project, and the experimental rates were still possibilities. I'm glad the EV-TOU3 rate is gone, with the $13/month meter charge! I can't tell from SDG&E's rate sheet and explanatory pages whether on EV-TOU they would charge one $3.81/month meter charge for the account, or two $3.81/month meter charges, one per meter. If the latter, that would raise my "equivalent gasoline price" by $0.26 per gallon. For the EPEV-H schedule, the meter charge would make it better to have a single meter for house plus car. But for the EPEV-M schedule, it would be better to pay for the extra meter.

Again, you might get very different results if you drive more miles than I, live inland and have an air conditioner for your house, have larger or smaller solar panels than I, etc.
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