Shopping for First Leaf and Chasing Bars...

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away2maine

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
9
Hey there!

Just starting down the path of a first Leaf purchase. I began with a focus on 2016 SV/SL for the 30kWh battery and the longer warranty. Then I noticed a couple interesting pieces and wanted to check with the pros here.

I also stumbled across a 2014 with 12,500 miles and 12 bars showing on the cluster listed for $8,500. Seems reasonable that this might be a new battery, but is there any way to confirm this? I would presume that this is likely a 24kWh replacement, but, once again, is there a way to confirm this?

Then I'm trying to determine if I push towards the 2016 SV/SL option, These 3 pieces range from 43k-50k miles. In this group, I'm trying to determine whether it makes more sense to pursue 9 bars, which should drop to 8 within the 96/100 capacity warranty or 10 bars (which of course could be a day away from 9). FWIW, the 10 bar Leaf is the 43k miles piece.

This is the first of several questions likely to come...

Thanks...Peace...Away...
 
Not a pro, but to get you started...

That 2014 may well have the original battery pack, but I'm not sure how to confirm it. It's my recollection that 24 kWh LEAFs can only receive 24 kWh pack replacements.

While I am very happy with this 30 kWh LEAF, I learned that their capacity bar readings can be misleading depending on whether or not they have had a recent Battery Management System update. If a 30 kWh LEAF is missing bars, it is likely a genuine reading, but one that shows all bars may have had a recent BMS update and not yet re-adjusted. I got lucky, and this one still shows 12 like it did at purchase. It sounds like Nissan is replacing 30 kWh packs with 40 kWh packs--just something to keep in mind. I don't want to rely on the replacement warranty, though. I presume they can refuse it, for reasons such as missing an annual battery checkup.

I was originally looking for a 2016 SV but am really happy with with 2016 S I ended up with. I like the narrower, less-expensive tires, the seat fabric, the matte-black shifter surround (the gloss-black on the SV/SL scratches and scuffs easily, and shows fingerprints) and the simpler climate and audio controls with lack of touch screen (also stays fingerprint-free).

Best wishes!
 
Agreed the 2014 is probably the original battery. It might be close to losing its first bar but you can't tell without checking it with LeafSpy or equivalent.

About the 2016/2017 strategy - if the BMS firmware update hasn't been performed, Nissan will do that before they consider a warranty replacement so a 9 bar car could suddenly be a 10 or 11 or even 12 bar car. In this case, even the SOH as reported by LeafSpy will change after the update. My 2017 Leaf went from 92% SOH to 97% SOH after the firmware update (at 6 months old). It's now at 94% SOH (at 30 months). Without the update it might be down several bars by now and LeafSpy would also report the lower numbers. So if you're planning to get a 30kWh Leaf hoping for a warranty replacement be sure to check if the BMS update has been done, it can make a huge difference.

If you haven't read LeftieBikers 'Leaf buying guide' post do that first. It's posted here somewhere and is not hard to find.
 
Yup...Read LeftieBikers' post right before pushing mine out.

One of the thought exercises I need to work through is balancing the lower mileage and higher SOH of the 2014 at $8,500 to the greater range, higher mileage and potential battery replacement/refresh on the 2016s falling in around $13,500. Any general thoughts on this from folks? I reside in Indy and my daily commute to and from the office is only around 30 miles.

I think a big challenge on the 2016s will be how to realistically determine whether they have had the BMS update since they are not local vehicles. The 2014 is located several states away and the 2016s are listed by Carvana. The 2014's location itself comes as a challenge (unless a reasonable delivery can be negotiated). I certainly have the capacity to use my Bluetooth OBDII transmitter and the LeafSpy app when a Carvana piece shows up at the door, but then I will have to explain what I'm doing and why I may not take the vehicle upon delivery. Any insight folks might have here would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance...Peace...Away...
 
Nissan should be able to tell you, given the VIN, if a Leaf has had the BMS update. This is, as noted, crucial info with a 30kwh pack.

Given your 30 mile needs, the 2014 would work fine, as long as there was no BMS reset to spoof the capacity display. The only issue there is that it has little or likely no battery warranty (or other warranty) left. You need to determine if you want to spend more money for more range and a warranty. If you can find a 30kwh leaf with 12 bars that has NOT had the BMS update, that will give you almost 3X the range you need. I know, I sound like a broken record on that point...
 
Definitely leaning towards a 2016 or 17 SL or SV. I agree that the greater range makes a lot more sense. Also if I could find one either with a lot of bars or sitting at 9 or 10 with several years left to get to a potential warranty replacement if or when needed that would be good as well. I have found a couple of them online that are quite literally only showing two or three bars with 25 to 40 thousand miles. That just seems odd and off to me. I cannot fathom why these are even listed for sale.

The real challenge is being located in the Midwest and trying to find an electric vehicle. If anyone has solid recommendations on where or how to look it would be greatly appreciated. I have spent a good deal of time on CarGurus as well as Cars websites. Since most of them are located elsewhere, places like Carvana or CarMax seem to have some appeal because of the delivery option to Indy. However CarMax delivery from the West Coast bumps the price $1,800 and that simply isn't an option 😬

Thanks for all the insight so far!
 
Hi,Indy, I would check in with Hoosier EVA on Facebook and post a WTB ad.The next meeting is in April. Location is the Irvington Library.A Blue/white 16 SV W/QC no bose 24,300 miles for 12,800 .Dealer is STL Carz in ST.Charles MO. Yes it is 250 miles away.Your choices are limited in your area.If you pm me, I am able to help you look.I was lucky and found one here with a newer pack. I would have linked the ad but my tech skills are nil.thks Bob. How soon do you need the car? also check FB marketplace.Maybe a WTB on your local CL.
 
I have found a couple of them online that are quite literally only showing two or three bars with 25 to 40 thousand miles. That just seems odd and off to me. I cannot fathom why these are even listed for sale.

Are you sure that you aren't looking at the larger Charge bars? The capacity bars are the tiny ones at the ends of the charge bars. They show regardless of the state of charge.
 
I am absolutely sure that the bars that were shown in the images were the capacity bars. Seems crazy to me to even try to sell something like that, but does make you wonder about

Thanks for the additional shopping insight. I'll definitely look into those other options. The challenge isn't necessarily finding them, they are all over Carvana. The bigger issue is the possibility of finding something within 100 or so miles of me.

Thanks again!

Peace...Away...
 
away2maine said:
Hey there!

Just starting down the path of a first Leaf purchase. I began with a focus on 2016 SV/SL for the 30kWh battery and the longer warranty. Then I noticed a couple interesting pieces and wanted to check with the pros here.

I also stumbled across a 2014 with 12,500 miles and 12 bars showing on the cluster listed for $8,500. Seems reasonable that this might be a new battery, but is there any way to confirm this? I would presume that this is likely a 24kWh replacement, but, once again, is there a way to confirm this?

Then I'm trying to determine if I push towards the 2016 SV/SL option, These 3 pieces range from 43k-50k miles. In this group, I'm trying to determine whether it makes more sense to pursue 9 bars, which should drop to 8 within the 96/100 capacity warranty or 10 bars (which of course could be a day away from 9). FWIW, the 10 bar Leaf is the 43k miles piece.

This is the first of several questions likely to come...

Thanks...Peace...Away...

It very well could be the original pack. There are 2013's and newer with 100,000 miles or more with 12 bars. The dash tells you next to nothing. LEAF Spy is what you need.

I would be more interested in how the car was stored, charged, driven, etc. Having the car sit for years at 40-50% SOC would have a relatively small impact over time.
 
away2maine said:
Yup...Read LeftieBikers' post right before pushing mine out.

One of the thought exercises I need to work through is balancing the lower mileage and higher SOH of the 2014 at $8,500 to the greater range, higher mileage and potential battery replacement/refresh on the 2016s falling in around $13,500. Any general thoughts on this from folks? I reside in Indy and my daily commute to and from the office is only around 30 miles.

I think a big challenge on the 2016s will be how to realistically determine whether they have had the BMS update since they are not local vehicles. The 2014 is located several states away and the 2016s are listed by Carvana. The 2014's location itself comes as a challenge (unless a reasonable delivery can be negotiated). I certainly have the capacity to use my Bluetooth OBDII transmitter and the LeafSpy app when a Carvana piece shows up at the door, but then I will have to explain what I'm doing and why I may not take the vehicle upon delivery. Any insight folks might have here would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance...Peace...Away...

People will tell you the 24 kwh LEAF will work but I have to disagree.

It all really depends on your tolerance to cold. Your winters can EASILY see a 50% drop in range if you like driving toasty. The 24 kwh pack is soon to be completely out of warranty and the one you mentioned is out. All 30 kwh packs still half their warranty left.

There is also a question of DC charging which you have not mentioned. I know you think you will never use it but you don't think you will ever use your homeowners insurance either. The 30 kwh LEAF charges MUCH faster than the 24 kwh LEAF. My 2016 S 30 charged at full rate (up to 125 amps) to 80% SOC while both my 24 kwh LEAFs started slowing at 35% SOC. A HUGE difference.

As far as the 30 kwh LBC update; That can be done free of charge at any Nissan dealership. Simply get it done if it hasn't been already. Since it sounds like you are buying from a car service, it likely has been done.
 
I have definitely shifted my focus to SVs or SLs built in 2016 or after to get the 30kwh battery.

A service like Carvana or CarMax seems to provide the best option since they also include some delivery capacity or another. There is a 2016 with 3,700 miles located about 3.5 hours (225 miles) away from me . The image appears to show 12 bars capacity remaining (which certainly seems reasonable considering the mileage) and the asking price is $14,800. It seems to be truly "like new."

Continue to battle with myself between a higher price, higher bar 30kwh Leaf verses a lower price, lower bar 30kwh piece that might qualify for replacement within a year or two.
 
Based on your username, it sounds like your located in Maine somewhere. A 30kWh LEAF, with a degraded pack, is a gamble, since your climate likely isn't hot enough to ensure rapid enough degradation to qualify for a free replacement.

Personally, I wouldn't gamble on that as you could end up missing the warranty replacement and be stuck with a LEAF with limited range.
 
Buy some Black Fly and No See Um eggs and a clear tent to house them, and you can recreate the Maine Experience at home. Don't forget to create a dead zone for your cell phone!
 
LeftieBiker said:
Buy some Black Fly and No See Um eggs and a clear tent to house them, and you can recreate the Maine Experience at home. Don't forget to create a dead zone for your cell phone!

Sounds like northern MN :D
Beautiful as is upstate Maine but mosquitos and bugs are downright awful. Sleeping in a tent it sounds like your in the middle of a beehive :(
Oh, very spotty cell service in northern MN too....
 
Been pulled away for a bit too long...

Love the conversation on Maine and Minnesota. This is our preferred summer climate and we have spent months over the last several summers in both locations. They both have their draws, but flying pests are not one of them.

Coming to the realization that places like Carvana and CarMax are a little pricey on most of the Leafs they have in stock. I came to the realization that if I can pull a 6,000 pound camper with the GL450, I can probably pull a 2016 Leaf home from a dealership. This has drawn me to the two below:

2016 SV - 1 owner in Iowa - 3,700 miles - 10 bars - $14,800 (at an "fixed price" dealership)

2016 SV - 1 owner in Kentucky - 35,500 miles - 11 bars - $12,900 (at Nissan dealership)

In either case I would be taking bluetooth adapter and LeafSpy to pull data to confirm that the bar readings above make sense. Knowing the climates of both Iowa and Kentucky, I must say I'm intrigued by the bars vs. mileage on these two pieces.

I would appreciate any insight folks are willing to share on these two options.
 
That 2016 SV in Iowa is tempting as it looks like it will qualify for a new battery under warranty soon, which would probably be a 40kWh pack. The wild card is whether or not the BMS firmware update has been done. A Nissan dealer could probably tell from the VIN if you can find one to look it up for you.
 
goldbrick said:
That 2016 SV in Iowa is tempting as it looks like it will qualify for a new battery under warranty soon, which would probably be a 40kWh pack. The wild card is whether or not the BMS firmware update has been done. A Nissan dealer could probably tell from the VIN if you can find one to look it up for you.

Car is overpriced and Not sure I would rely on Nissan maintaining any policy very long. Their leadership is in flux right now and I do see changes coming. Whether this will be affected is anyone's guess.
 
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