Noob, still trying to figure it out.

I don’t have a Leaf yet, been looking at some. There is one being sold here that is a 2016 S with 45000 miles that a non-Nissan dealer is selling. Asking price is $10,900. There is another, a 2011 S being sold by a private seller that has 50,000 miles on it. The Private seller says his car still has 10 bars and a 70 mile range.

Difference in mileage is only 5000. Different in price is about $4000.

The non Nissan dealer does not know anything about electric cars and I am considering going and checking battery and range left on that one.

Any comments, advice, suggestions, appreciated.

WetEV asked you several important questions in your last "should I buy" thread (https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30591) that it would be worthwhile for you to answer.

I live in St. Louis, Mo. Weather has been decent. In extreme cold, I can always use another car. My wife drives a Mazda that we will have.

I don’t know what else you wan5 to know.

zahmed1094 said:

I don’t have a Leaf yet, been looking at some. There is one being sold here that is a 2016 S with 45000 miles that a non-Nissan dealer is selling. Asking price is $10,900. There is another, a 2011 S being sold by a private seller that has 50,000 miles on it. The Private seller says his car still has 10 bars and a 70 mile range.

Difference in mileage is only 5000. Different in price is about $4000.

The non Nissan dealer does not know anything about electric cars and I am considering going and checking battery and range left on that one.

Any comments, advice, suggestions, appreciated.

Click to expand...

Note 2016 S shipped with the 24 kWh battery in first part of 2016 S model year then 30 kWh battery last part of model year.

Last month I bought a 2016 SL at Bommarito Nissan on the west side of St. Louis and found Matt Sanders very believable and very helpful. In a few hours I left with the Leaf on a U-Haul car trailer and got back to KY by 11pm the same day. I left ready to buy the one off CL and after a few months of Leaf research so the buying decision was done before I left home based if what I found in person matched the web and phone info.

I was on my way to Nashville TN on a Monday to buy one off Craigslist and found the one in St. Louis early Sat morning online and decided to look at it first. Got nearly 3 years of power train factory coverage and 5 years on the 30 kWh battery pack.

There is one St. Louis Nissan dealership with new Leafs in stock so you are in a good city to find a Leaf. I am glad I did not go the CL route. Loving the 2016 SL that had 21.5K miles at the time. I was going to get a 2015 before I found our car for little more. I needed one with the 4 exterior cameras to help aid my vision in parking lots. Actually the other morning I moved the car in the driveway to get it closer to the house with all windows covered in frost just using the four cameras for vision.

2011-2012 years where built in Japan and are somewhat different than 2013 up. The battery health can be the tail that wags the door on any EV.

Best of success in finding your Leaf. Try to find one with 2x of the daily range you will be driving if possible so when a side trip pops up you do not have to go home to get the gas vehicle.

You write that the battery health is the most important in the buying decision. Without Apps or tools, how would you determine the battery health?

Do you look at the bars on the dash or the range the car is showing or what? It’s what I don’t get.

Should I worry about all 2011 cars as the battery warranty has expired? Even if 10 bars and 70 miles range?

The 70 mile range should be okay for my purposes of commuting in town.

zahmed1094 said:

You write that the battery health is the most important in the buying decision. Without Apps or tools, how would you determine the battery health?

Do you look at the bars on the dash or the range the car is showing or what? It’s what I don’t get.

Should I worry about all 2011 cars as the battery warranty has expired? Even if 10 bars and 70 miles range?

The 70 mile range should be okay for my purposes of commuting in town.

Click to expand...

Is the 2011 an SV or SL? Does it have the DCQC port? With 10 capacity bars, 70-mile range would be in moderate temperatures with no heat use. Hot water tank heating system in 2011 takes a lot of energy and reduces range more than later cars. Has traction battery in 2011 been replaced? If so, when and at what mileage? Cold weather package (battery heater and heated seats, mirrors, and steering wheel) was added late in 2011 production run--don't consider one without the battery heater for your climate.

The capacity bars (narrow bars on right side of dash display) are the best capacity reference unless you have Leaf Spy with a suitable OBDII interface. There are 12 bars (bottom two are red) total when battery is new and they disappear one at a time as capacity drops. EPA range when new was 73 miles, but could be exceeded with careful moderate speed driving.

zahmed1094 said:

You write that the battery health is the most important in the buying decision. Without Apps or tools, how would you determine the battery health?

Do you look at the bars on the dash or the range the car is showing or what? It’s what I don’t get.

Should I worry about all 2011 cars as the battery warranty has expired? Even if 10 bars and 70 miles range?

The 70 mile range should be okay for my purposes of commuting in town.

Click to expand...

Yes 12/12 bars on the right side of the dash display is best but does not mean the battery is perfect because degradation has to reach a certain point before each bar is lost.

Do you know if the battery is OEM or has it been replaced by Nissan years later?

Our 2016 is showing 9/12 bars but I have not got the firmware update that may added the bars back. This is only a 30 kWh battery issue and not the 24 kWh batteries it seems.

2011-2012 Leafs came from Japan and used different motors and older battery technology that was addressed over the 2013-2014 model years but only officially in print in 2015.

If cheap enough a 2011 that has only lost 2 bars and still is good for 70 actual driving miles (not what is shown on the dash) may be a good option for you. I am looking to pick up a total of 4 EV's over time for the family so I when with newer technology since Nissan is still standing behind the drive train and battery.

Personally if I were to pick up a 2011 or 2012 I would first be willing to scrap out the car for a total loss in the event of a major repair cost and move on. A new battery in an old car does not add much of anything to its cash value in a trade or if it is totally out but an insurance company.

Trade-in Range
$1,835 - $3,152
Trade-in Value
$2,494

The above is for a 2011 Leaf from Kelly Blue Book trade-in value which is all I want to pay for a car that I will be its last owner. If the range was down to 30-40 miles I would move the value more towards ZERO. For the price of a new battery one could pick up a usable 2015 or better Leaf. A light passenger side side swipe would be an option if I was just going for function as long as some insurance company had not totaled it out.

A Leaf with a very weak battery to me has no value. This Leaf is my 6th Nissan to own and two make it to 200K miles. The Leaf is the first one without a gas tank however.

In the end it is your money and your choice so go with what seems best to you because I do not get my advice on used cars from others either.

You need to read my used Leaf buying guide:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030

You should be looking for a 30KWH 2016 Leaf. The warranty is a lot stronger on the 30KWH battery. If you find one with a couple of bars missing, use that as leverage to get the price down.

LeftieBiker said:

You need to read my used Leaf buying guide:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030

Click to expand...

After reading your buying guide, I am too scared to buy one.

I am interested in the Leaf because of mostly wanting to drive in town less than 50 miles each day (short commute to a job or local grocery stores) in lower Midwest weather that remains between 25 and 90 degrees 11 months of the year.

Any comments on one of these, price, car fax etc.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Used+Cars/Nissan/Leaf/Ballwin+MO-63011?makeCodeList=NISSAN&searchRadius=50&modelCodeList=LEAF&zip=63011&startYear=2013&listingTypes=USED%2CCERTIFIED&sortBy=relevance&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&marketExtension=false

zahmed1094 said:

LeftieBiker said:

You need to read my used Leaf buying guide:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030

Click to expand...

After reading your buying guide, I am too scared to buy one.

I am interested in the Leaf because of mostly wanting to drive in town less than 50 miles each day (short commute to a job or local grocery stores) in lower Midwest weather that remains between 25 and 90 degrees 11 months of the year.

Click to expand...

Less than 50 miles is probably too much for a 24kWh battery

Less than 35 miles is probably OK.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=27677

If your mileage estimate is correct, you probably want a 30kWh or larger battery. The early Leafs had a 24kWh battery.

I have found in the short time we have owned the Leaf that for daily stuff it is best to have have 2x of that expected range. Side trips do pop up and a failure to plug in happens from time to time.

Running from 100% to Turtle mode can be done for a while but then it is killing the battery pack years before its time. The advantage of 200+ mile Leaf is one can keep it charged between 70% down to 20% and still have a 100 mile range.

In the real world I am more concerned with a dead battery on the side of the road than maxing it out from time to time damage.

On a side note I strongly suggest Leaf Spy software if one owns a leaf. I paid $15 and got the Pro version to support myself and the developer. In testing I have found Turtle Mode (the reduced power mode) happens around 5 GID's or 6 GID's. No it is not idea to run that low but the two times I did I was at the charger or near the charger. When the last battery bar goes and range goes to --- and % of charge go to --- I typically am good for a couple miles but with Leaf Spy Pro giving me the GID's readout I can compute when Turtle Mode is about to happen. I have never ran it in Turtle Mode more than a few hundred feet and hopefully I will never do so. I was coming up the steep hill to my driveway and I first thought the battery had died when the max 32 MPH occurred.

Both times in came out of Turtle Mode own its own before I could get it on the charger. The 40 volt leaf blower will if rested after it dies it will restart for a few seconds as well. Car starting batteries can recover sometimes as well if one cuts off the load that ran them down like leaving the headlights on.

zahmed1094 said:

LeftieBiker said:

You need to read my used Leaf buying guide:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030

Click to expand...

After reading your buying guide, I am too scared to buy one.

I am interested in the Leaf because of mostly wanting to drive in town less than 50 miles each day (short commute to a job or local grocery stores) in lower Midwest weather that remains between 25 and 90 degrees 11 months of the year.

Click to expand...

Either a 2014+ Leaf SV or SL with 12 capacity bars, or a 2016-2017 Leaf SV or SL with 10 or more bars should suit your needs. Just understand that it's possible to reset the capacity display to read 12 bars when it's really less. Given that, the 30kwh pack in the 2017-2017 Leaf SV and SL is the safer bet. At least if it is defective or loses a lot of capacity it will be under warranty for 8 years from date of sale/registration.

LeftieBiker said:

zahmed1094 said:

LeftieBiker said:

You need to read my used Leaf buying guide:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030

Click to expand...

After reading your buying guide, I am too scared to buy one.

I am interested in the Leaf because of mostly wanting to drive in town less than 50 miles each day (short commute to a job or local grocery stores) in lower Midwest weather that remains between 25 and 90 degrees 11 months of the year.

Click to expand...

Either a 2014+ Leaf SV or SL with 12 capacity bars, or a 2016-2017 Leaf SV or SL with 10 or more bars should suit your needs. Just understand that it's possible to reset the capacity display to read 12 bars when it's really less. Given that, the 30kwh pack in the 2017-2017 Leaf SV and SL is the safer bet. At least if it is defective or loses a lot of capacity it will be under warranty for 8 years from date of sale/registration.

Click to expand...

Is not a 2016 S with 24k battery not under warranty? There are 10 bars on the one Zi saw today, asking price is $10,800..

^^^
See page 5 of the PDF at https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2016/2016-LEAF-warranty-booklet.pdf.

cwerdna said:

^^^
See page 5 of the PDF at https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2016/2016-LEAF-warranty-booklet.pdf.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I guess the 24w warranty is for 5 years and 60k miles. This really means less than 2 years or 16k miles left on the car. I guess I am not interested in that car.

zahmed1094 said:

cwerdna said:

^^^
See page 5 of the PDF at https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2016/2016-LEAF-warranty-booklet.pdf.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I guess the 24w warranty is for 5 years and 60k miles. This really means less than 2 years or 16k miles left on the car. I guess I am not interested in that car.

Click to expand...

One has to be careful about the year creep thing or he or she will wind up buying a 2020 Leaf or other EV.

I found the 2016 SL with the 30 wKh battery showing 9/12 health bars for about $1500 more than a 2015 with the same features more or less from a major Nissan dealership. Nearly 5 more years of battery coverage if I do not drive it more than 18K miles a year and 2 years of the drive train made it worth the $1500 more (after they came down $2500 on the selling price). Since I am driving about 25K annually I have about 3 years to get the battery health concerns addressed.

Just set the max $$$ you are willing to walk away from in the worse case scenario purchase and pull the trigger because buying a used EV without the maker behind it can result in 100%+ loss of purchase price.

I am sitting at a dealer now while they appraise my trade in. I am looking to buy a 2013 SV. They have it listed at $7990. All the bars are there so far.

I am trying to get the price down and to $7000.

Looks good. No rear camera though. Navigation, and rest of stuff is present.

Make sure the build month is April 2013 or later - avoid earlier builds. Get them to guarantee that it won't drop a capacity bar for 30 days.