danrjones
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Re: New Mexico government had decided they hate electric vehicles

Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:23 pm

Speaking of which, that's not half bad looking, if it was real....


https://electrek.co/2019/11/13/tesla-se ... ic-pickup/

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2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
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Re: New Mexico government had decided they hate electric vehicles

Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:15 pm

From the linked piece:

"If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then Tesla should be flattered that Neuron EV, a Chinese-backed EV startup, copied the design of the Tesla Semi for their own electric semi-truck."


To be fair, both Tesla and Neurone seem to have copied their designs from the Cylon attack ships of the Battlestar Galactica reboot.


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Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 2099
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Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: New Mexico government had decided they hate electric vehicles

Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:50 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:57 am
Now NM wants to adopt California style EV mandate.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-auto ... SKBN1WA2SJ

So they are going to get the tax in place first then try to force people to buy them.
NM and MN :)
Yes thanks for posting the link, first I've heard of it. I hope this means we'll get a better selection of EVs as now(as it's always been) it's pretty much the Leaf and Tesla :(
I wonder if this means MN will also eliminate or reduce their "EV" tax on Tabs.....(I don't really wonder as I know there is no way in hell MN would eliminate or reduce a tax!) It's almost double what I'd pay in gas taxes for a comparable ICE vehicle driving the number of miles our Leafs get.
While MN might be ahead in some things, EV adoption isn't one of them and most people I've talked to are actually against EVs :roll: were in the land of pickups and SUVs here.....
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

GaleHawkins
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: New Mexico government had decided they hate electric vehicles

Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:32 am

Randy wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:34 am
I think your title is overly dramatic. The second generation of EVs has been on the market since 2011 here in CA, and has had an 8 year run of little to no road taxes or other fees.

I don't think it's fair for my neighbors to have to pay my share of road taxes. I'm driving two EVs and I think it is time to pay. Here in CA, they are starting a $100 fee next year for EVs. It's a simple start; if they calculated the fee individually by mileage some people would pay less because of reduced mileage and some would pay more.

Not charging any EVs road maintenance fees is unsustainable as the numbers grow. There is lots of road work to be done, so revenue has to go up and not down. Here in San Diego, we have almost 50,000 EVs on the road. It's time to pay for our share of road maintenance fees...It has nothing to do with EV hate....
I agree on this subject. While KY has not added any fees to register any EV I expect a $100 will happen and do not have a problem with that. While the battery shortage world wide for EV's is holding back the numbers of EV's on the roads to at some point the most sold will be EV's and no road tax will hurt us all.

jjeff
Posts: 2099
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
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Re: New Mexico government had decided they hate electric vehicles

Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:43 pm

GaleHawkins wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:32 am
Randy wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:34 am
I think your title is overly dramatic. The second generation of EVs has been on the market since 2011 here in CA, and has had an 8 year run of little to no road taxes or other fees.

I don't think it's fair for my neighbors to have to pay my share of road taxes. I'm driving two EVs and I think it is time to pay. Here in CA, they are starting a $100 fee next year for EVs. It's a simple start; if they calculated the fee individually by mileage some people would pay less because of reduced mileage and some would pay more.

Not charging any EVs road maintenance fees is unsustainable as the numbers grow. There is lots of road work to be done, so revenue has to go up and not down. Here in San Diego, we have almost 50,000 EVs on the road. It's time to pay for our share of road maintenance fees...It has nothing to do with EV hate....
I agree on this subject. While KY has not added any fees to register any EV I expect a $100 will happen and do not have a problem with that.
Then you must like paying a higher road tax than someone driving an equivalent ICE? It's pretty easy to figure out how much an ICE driver driving a given mileage will pay in "road" taxes, which is really BS because the vast majority of "road" taxes are out of the general fund(federal and state) and a pitiful amount is actually paid by the gas tax. Now if you really want to pay for roads then do what Norway or Sweden does, have something like a $4/gallon gas tax! that's reality, even a dollar/gallon "gas" tax is very inadequate.

How I figured even a $100 "EV tab" fee would be more than double what I'd pay in "gas" tax and about what the average ICE driver driving an equivalent ICE car would pay:

First figure out the equivalent MPG a Leaf would be. Now I know the ICE equivalent on the Leaf window sticker is something like 100mpg but I figured 30mpg as what I thought as the Leaf was roughly similar the Versa which gets about 30mpg.
Next you have to figure out how many miles you drive, I drive less than 6k/year but others drive much more, I think the average is 12k?? but that's not really fair for a vehicle like our 70 mile(mines 50-60 miles) Leaf, so lets go with a generous 10k/year.
Lastly you need to know how much your state charges in a "gas" tax, my state(MN) charges slightly less than 29c/gallon.
10k miles @ 30mpg would mean driving a 30mpg ICE someone would be purchasing 333 gallons/year and at 29c/gallon it would mean an average ICE driver would be paying roughly $97/year in a MN "gas" tax. In my case, driving 6k/year(max) I'd be purchasing 200 gallons of gas/year and paying $58/year in a "gas" tax or less than I pay for MN's "EV" tax! a real good incentive for purchasing a vehicle that is cleaner for the environment and I'm not even getting into the "electricity" tax I pay for charging an EV that an ICE driver doesn't pay.
Now the latest is MN is thinking of getting more people to drive EVs, lets think about getting rid of an unfair "EV" tax first :roll:

The only fair way to tax roads is a mileage fee plus weight fee, the more you drive the more you pay and the heavier your vehicle(causes more wear and tear on the roads) the more you pay. Personally I'm not too fond of this way as I figure it would be a record-keeping nightmare and too ripe for cheating but if done correctly could be a more fair way to pay for roads, much fairer than an "EV" tax.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

GaleHawkins
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: New Mexico government had decided they hate electric vehicles

Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:15 pm

jjeff wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:43 pm
GaleHawkins wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:32 am
Randy wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:34 am
I think your title is overly dramatic. The second generation of EVs has been on the market since 2011 here in CA, and has had an 8 year run of little to no road taxes or other fees.

I don't think it's fair for my neighbors to have to pay my share of road taxes. I'm driving two EVs and I think it is time to pay. Here in CA, they are starting a $100 fee next year for EVs. It's a simple start; if they calculated the fee individually by mileage some people would pay less because of reduced mileage and some would pay more.

Not charging any EVs road maintenance fees is unsustainable as the numbers grow. There is lots of road work to be done, so revenue has to go up and not down. Here in San Diego, we have almost 50,000 EVs on the road. It's time to pay for our share of road maintenance fees...It has nothing to do with EV hate....
I agree on this subject. While KY has not added any fees to register any EV I expect a $100 will happen and do not have a problem with that.
Then you must like paying a higher road tax than someone driving an equivalent ICE? It's pretty easy to figure out how much an ICE driver driving a given mileage will pay in "road" taxes, which is really BS because the vast majority of "road" taxes are out of the general fund(federal and state) and a pitiful amount is actually paid by the gas tax. Now if you really want to pay for roads then do what Norway or Sweden does, have something like a $4/gallon gas tax! that's reality, even a dollar/gallon "gas" tax is very inadequate.

How I figured even a $100 "EV tab" fee would be more than double what I'd pay in "gas" tax and about what the average ICE driver driving an equivalent ICE car would pay:

First figure out the equivalent MPG a Leaf would be. Now I know the ICE equivalent on the Leaf window sticker is something like 100mpg but I figured 30mpg as what I thought as the Leaf was roughly similar the Versa which gets about 30mpg.
Next you have to figure out how many miles you drive, I drive less than 6k/year but others drive much more, I think the average is 12k?? but that's not really fair for a vehicle like our 70 mile(mines 50-60 miles) Leaf, so lets go with a generous 10k/year.
Lastly you need to know how much your state charges in a "gas" tax, my state(MN) charges slightly less than 29c/gallon.
10k miles @ 30mpg would mean driving a 30mpg ICE someone would be purchasing 333 gallons/year and at 29c/gallon it would mean an average ICE driver would be paying roughly $97/year in a MN "gas" tax. In my case, driving 6k/year(max) I'd be purchasing 200 gallons of gas/year and paying $58/year in a "gas" tax or less than I pay for MN's "EV" tax! a real good incentive for purchasing a vehicle that is cleaner for the environment and I'm not even getting into the "electricity" tax I pay for charging an EV that an ICE driver doesn't pay.
Now the latest is MN is thinking of getting more people to drive EVs, lets think about getting rid of an unfair "EV" tax first :roll:

The only fair way to tax roads is a mileage fee plus weight fee, the more you drive the more you pay and the heavier your vehicle(causes more wear and tear on the roads) the more you pay. Personally I'm not too fond of this way as I figure it would be a record-keeping nightmare and too ripe for cheating but if done correctly could be a more fair way to pay for roads, much fairer than an "EV" tax.
jjeff it is $50 for gas tax and $50 to keep my butt out of gas stations.

At the age of 69 going for 120 I have found being retensive about matters that have a real chance to reduce my longevity just is not worth $50 a year. :)

GRA
Posts: 11751
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: New Mexico government had decided they hate electric vehicles

Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:18 pm

jjeff, While I agree with your weight x mileage fee being the fairest way to do things, did you include the Fed. gas tax. in your $0.29/gal. calc? If not, that would boost it up to $0.474/gal.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

jjeff
Posts: 2099
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: New Mexico government had decided they hate electric vehicles

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:22 pm

GRA wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:18 pm
jjeff, While I agree with your weight x mileage fee being the fairest way to do things, did you include the Fed. gas tax. in your $0.29/gal. calc? If not, that would boost it up to $0.474/gal.
No, I only took the state tax into account as all "EV" taxes are state-based and not federal, when someone has an EV the feds lose out under either scenario, well unless you count the billions and billions of dollars spent defending countries each year where our only interest is oil..... ;)
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

Oilpan4
Posts: 1375
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: New Mexico government had decided they hate electric vehicles

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:38 pm

The government knows how much money we save not buying gas and feels entitled to help themselves to some of it.
trumpvirus
Is going to get you.

GRA
Posts: 11751
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: New Mexico government had decided they hate electric vehicles

Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:27 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:38 pm
The government knows how much money we save not buying gas and feels entitled to help themselves to some of it.

To pay for roads, yes. The Fed. gas tax hasn't been raised since 1993, and inflation has been 73% over that period, which (combined with vehicles getting better mpg) means an ever-shrinking contribution from the federal gas tax. When you realize that the Interstate system was paid for by a 90/10 federal/state split (U.S. highways were typically a 50/50 or 60/40 split), it's easy to understand why our highways are in crappy condition.

Of course, fuel taxes have never paid the full cost of our highways, but to fail to even raise the tax to the comparable buying power it had 27 years ago when the interstates and other highways were a lot newer than they are now, never mind raising it to decrease the backlog of long-deferred maintenance, is an act of negligence by our government, aided and abetted by many of the same citizens who complain about the condition of the roads. In a few cases (California being one), we've voted to increase fuel taxes on ourselves (and tie them to inflation going forward), just because the deterioration is so obvious.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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