2022 LEAF specifications

The LEAF is Nissan's value priced BEV, so cost is king in this category. It is not out of the realm of possibility that the 2023 LEAF continues as-is with an entry level 40kWh battery, a new skin and CCS replacing CHAdeMO. The 2nd generation passively managed battery has certainly proven that it is durable and reliable since the 2018 and later cars, and the rest of the car with the exception of a few ergonomic issues is also very solid. It could very well be the 21st century Beetle, staying essentially unchanged for many calendar cycles.

It is not out of the realm of possibility that the 2023 LEAF continues as-is with an entry level 40kWh battery, a new skin and CCS replacing CHAdeMO.

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That's a pretty odd definition of "as-is"...

OrientExpress said:

The LEAF is Nissan's value priced BEV, so cost is king in this category. It is not out of the realm of possibility that the 2023 LEAF continues as-is with an entry level 40kWh battery, a new skin and CCS replacing CHAdeMO.

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Ya know, I think you are on to something. I had posted earlier that I didn't understand how an expensive pack could be put in a cheap car. Your point that a cheap pack with CCS extends the life of the LEAF line smells right. And it just might help Nissan discharge whatever purchase obligations they still have with the (now sold) battery factory. And let's face it: it is the Nissan way to package yesterday's tech into 'value' cars.

The Ariya is differentiated by much faster charging, perhaps a larger pack, and for the cognescenti, a longer lived pack.

I like the idea so much I just might wait a year to see if you are right. Personally, if I can ignore the stink that is Nissan corporate, my biggest gripe about LEAF the car is the zombie CHAdeMO adapter.
Whether it will succeed in the market is hard to say. Maybe in Europe or China, but commuter EVs in the USA have not caught on.

If they do move the Leaf to CCS, it might also open a path for shops to do the aftermarket conversion.

A leaf with a LFP battery, re-skinned to a more conventional design, and a CCS charge plug might sell well. A 40KWH LFP battery is certainly within the current technology and the lower cost could give Nissan a sub $25K car for the lower end of the market. So obviously we'll never see it.

I good portion of the population never drives over 100 miles in a day. The DC port type is for comfort, but rare actual use in those cases.

The prospect of a 20K EV (post federal) does seem to be catching on in the media a bit.

Why hitch your wagon to a dying protocol? CCS would make much more sense.

DougWantsALeaf said:

I am quite serious that if Tesla takes on Chademo support in the US, My next EV will likely be a Tesla.

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At this point, why would Nissan expend any design effort to incorporate CCS, or even to restyle the current LEAF? At best, they will continue to sell the current LEAF, with minor tweaks, for a couple more years.

It's far more likely that Nissan brings to market a lower cost EV based on the same CMF-EV "skateboard" platform as the Ariya. I would guess that EV is already in the design stages and perhaps even nearing prototype stage. Hopefully a 2023 release date, to compete against the $25k Tesla.

Or perhaps they'll just offer the rumored EV crossover as a LEAF replacement, hopefully under $30k USD pricing for the base model:

https://insideevs.com/news/517558/nissan-teases-new-electric-crossover/

The NA market sure loves crossovers...

TomT said:

Why hitch your wagon to a dying protocol? CCS would make much more sense.

DougWantsALeaf said:

I am quite serious that if Tesla takes on Chademo support in the US, My next EV will likely be a Tesla.

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I hear this dying protocol thing a lot But in real world with the exception of Electrify Canada/America the Chademo stations are going in as fast as CCS. And Electrify Canada is a small player here. Tesla just finished installing 4 Chademo/CCS stations (along with 12 V3 stations) 2 blocks from my house. By the end of the year I suspect there will be around 100 more Chademo stations in the province than there was last year. And outside of Tesla the leaf is by far the most populous EV on the road here. If a vendor gets rid of Chademo services they may as well close their doors. Chademo is routinely used by Tesla owners in these parts. I’m sure Chademo will disappear some day, but not in the next few years.

alozzy said:

to compete against the $25k Tesla.

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Gotta love the Tesla hype machine. I found it doubtful they will ever release a $25K USD (before tax incentives) automobile in the US while Elon is in charge. Even if they did, it will be late, hard to get and quickly killed due to "lack of demand".

Have you noticed the price increase on all Tesla models in the US over the past few months? Cheapest S now starts at past $90K USD once you factor in the $1200 destination and doc fee. Remember that S was originally just under $50K after $7500 Federal tax credit to start (https://www.tesla.com/blog/2013-model-s-price-increase).

webeleafowners said:

Tesla just finished installing 4 Chademo/CCS stations (along with 12 V3 stations) 2 blocks from my house.

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I had no idea that had happened! Is that in West Kelowna?

Is this the first time that Tesla has installed CHADEMO in BC? Can non Tesla owners use the CHADEMO DC chargers? If so, how do you pay and how much does it cost?

On PlugShare, there's no mention of CHADEMO for any SuperCharger stations so I didn't realize this was happening.

cwerdna said:

alozzy said:

to compete against the $25k Tesla.

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Gotta love the Tesla hype machine. I found it doubtful they will ever release a $25K USD (before tax incentives) automobile in the US while Elon is in charge. Even if they did, it will be late, hard to get and quickly killed due to "lack of demand".

Have you noticed the price increase on all Tesla models in the US over the past few months? Cheapest S now starts at past $90K USD once you factor in the $1200 destination and doc fee. Remember that S was originally just under $50K after $7500 Federal tax credit to start (https://www.tesla.com/blog/2013-model-s-price-increase).

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Have you noticed that even with the price increases, Tesla has a 3-4 month backlog? Make hay while the sun shines! Increased margins are good for Tesla even if they're not for the consumer.

What was the price of a Big Mac in 2013? Also there have been a few changes to the S over the years, Not the same car as today's S.

johnlocke said:

Also there have been a few changes to the S over the years, Not the same car as today's S.

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True, but the same can be said of the Leaf going back to Dec 2010.

Here was the price of the '11 Leaf w/73 mile EPA range rating and 24 kWh battery: https://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/30/2011-nissan-leaf-us-pricing-officially-announced-as-low-as-25/. Now look at where we are now with a Leaf w/twice the range, way more features, faster OBC, better acceleration, more power and at what price?

cwerdna said:

alozzy said:

to compete against the $25k Tesla.

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Gotta love the Tesla hype machine. I found it doubtful they will ever release a $25K USD (before tax incentives) automobile in the US while Elon is in charge. Even if they did, it will be late, hard to get and quickly killed due to "lack of demand.

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The Chinese might make it a government priority to produce EVs so cheap that it destroys the competition for all but luxury EVs. They have used this strategy (short term financial losses, subsidized by government, in order to grab huge market share) to great effect in so many other markets.

An excellent example is the solar panel industry. Thanks to huge government loans and tax breaks to Chinese solar panel manufacturers, those companies were able to acquire the expertise and economies of scale to flood the solar panel market with inexpensive, decent quality panels.

US manufacturers - despite owning many patents and other IP for solar panel technologies, and despite having created and dominated the solar panel market for decades - lost market dominance over a 5 year period.

It seems inevitable that the Chinese will do the same with the non luxury EV market segments. They already own/control much of the EV battery supply chain, including lithium mining interests in the Congo and elsewhere. Tesla's decision to focus on luxury EVs is very likely a recognition of, and response to, that inevitability.

Chinese EV manufacturers will give Tesla some tough competition in the luxury market too, but at least Tesla are well established in that market and can likely hold their own.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2020/10/22/outside-of-tesla-china-might-be-dominant-force-in-global-ev-market/

https://thediplomat.com/2021/03/the-us-is-falling-behind-china-in-the-race-for-electric-vehicles/

An excerpt from that last article:

In the past decade, Beijing has poured more than $100 billion into its EV sector and is also looking to lead in the connected, autonomous, and shared vehicles of the future. Beijing plans to spend $120 billion on connected and autonomous vehicles by 2021, and more than $400 billion on 5G technology

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Tesla alone cannot stem that tide. Unfortunately, US politics makes any long term, strategic economic goals almost impossible.

alozzy said:

webeleafowners said:

Tesla just finished installing 4 Chademo/CCS stations (along with 12 V3 stations) 2 blocks from my house.

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I had no idea that had happened! Is that in West Kelowna?

Is this the first time that Tesla has installed CHADEMO in BC? Can non Tesla owners use the CHADEMO DC chargers? If so, how do you pay and how much does it cost?

On PlugShare, there's no mention of CHADEMO for any SuperCharger stations so I didn't realize this was happening.

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I count four installations so far where Tesla was contracted to install FLO stations. Vernon is one of them. Salmon arm is another one. You can see them on plugshare. I think the other two are Prince George and Williams lake but not sure. There are a bunch more going on in the kootenays but not sure which ones are under that program. Once they are installed they are operated separately. FLO runs there operation and Tesla runs there operation. I’m not sure of the details but essentially FLO contracts Tesla to do the install. The BC Goverment pays for the siting and permit fees (not sure of details) as long as 25 percent of the stations are non-Tesla.

@webeleafowners that arrangement makes sense, thanks for explaining!

Kyle's review of the 2022. I do like that color.

https://youtu.be/dBdzGNU62VE

I watched enough of it to get annoyed at how little he knows about a car he's reviewed for so long. I'll watch the hot-rodding part later.

Can someone beg Kyle or Tom to please range test the S+. I would like to see an 3rd party test of the range difference.