Best ICE/hybrid choice to tide me over

Looks like I'll need to acquire another car ASAP for the family "fleet" prior to the Leaf's arrival. Any opinions on ICE/hybrid car choices appreciated for:

- low purchase price (prefer new, it has always worked better for me, but would consider newer used)
- low total cost of ownership
- great fuel economy
- durability/reliability
- something not too boring image-wise would be a plus, but does not need to be fancy, just basic comforts like power windows/locks

the best is not cheap. would not consider anything but a Prius

DaveinOlyWA said:

the best is not cheap. would not consider anything but a Prius

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The Prius would be cool, but this purchase isn't about making a statement like the Leaf, this is pretty much about getting down the road as inexpensively as possible. Isn't a Prius going to set me back $10k more than, say, a Corolla, more than I'll ever make back in gas savings?

u will never be able to rationalize the cost of a car. u want new, u want to pay $10,000. u are wasting your time.

what is your transportation need? when will you get your Leaf? what are your public options?

i would get a $1500 car. how long does it have to last?

I got my LEAF. Too bad you can't wait for yours. Hyundai Sonata Hybrid looks promising (in red)...

VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI. About 25-27K, 42mpg lots of interior room and rated for light towing. It's the highest mileage conventional ICE on the market. I think it is ranked 4th in mileage for all cars (LEAF, Volt then Prius). I also like that it has diesel simplicity and is sustainable on biofuels if the s--t really does hit the fan and shortages of oil begin.

DaveinOlyWA said:

u will never be able to rationalize the cost of a car. u want new, u want to pay $10,000. u are wasting your time.

what is your transportation need? when will you get your Leaf? what are your public options?

i would get a $1500 car. how long does it have to last?

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Agree 100%. I'm driving a 2000 Saturn SL2 until my Leaf comes in. Averaging mid 30's for mileage and doing most of the maintenance myself....so very very low cost of ownership. I paid $2400 for it about a year ago and should be able to sell it for at least $2000 in a year or so. Just put new plugs and wires in when I did the last oil change and it's running like a champ.

LTLFTcomposite said:

Looks like I'll need to acquire another car ASAP for the family "fleet" prior to the Leaf's arrival. Any opinions on ICE/hybrid car choices appreciated for:

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Planning to keep it or give it up when you get Leaf ?

I'd look for a Honda civic if you want efficient & reliable. BTW, apparently the used car values have gone up recently ..

Thank you all for your suggestions. This car will be in addition to the Leaf, but we need to get it now. Our fleet size is increasing by one, but we can't wait until December, so we'll get an econo-car now and when the Leaf arrives sell off the oldest in the fleet (an 18 year old camry).

I know cars are a losing proposition, so whatever we get we need it to last, both from a financial standpoint as well as an environmental responsibility one, as IMO too much attention is paid to the impact of the car's usage and not enough to what goes into making the car.

evnow said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

Looks like I'll need to acquire another car ASAP for the family "fleet" prior to the Leaf's arrival. Any opinions on ICE/hybrid car choices appreciated for:

Click to expand...

Planning to keep it or give it up when you get Leaf ?

I'd look for a Honda civic if you want efficient & reliable. BTW, apparently the used car values have gone up recently ..

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If so, snatch up a 2011 before their gone. Consumer Reports slammed the new Civic on alot of things and did NOT give it a "Recommended" rating. Honda is flipping out!

evnow said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

Looks like I'll need to acquire another car ASAP for the family "fleet" prior to the Leaf's arrival. Any opinions on ICE/hybrid car choices appreciated for:

Click to expand...

Planning to keep it or give it up when you get Leaf ?

I'd look for a Honda civic if you want efficient & reliable. BTW, apparently the used car values have gone up recently ..

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Yes, this car will be kept in the fleet.

We've got some Civics in the family fleet now, and they have been great. A bit pricier than some other choices but perhaps worth the extra upfront for lower TCO. I too was surprised to hear the not recommended rating, We've had better service from Hondas than any other nameplate.

I've been extremely disenchanted whenever I look at used car prices. Seems like you can get new with zero miles for only a couple K more than something three years old, and you know how it's been maintained, and presumably you have three more years of service life "in the bank" with a new one.

I've heard not-so-great things about VW when they get past the three year mark, expensive to repair stuff goes. All anecdotal though.

I've look at a TDI for the second car, but I'm concerned as well about the post 3-year, 36,000 mark as the first service is at 40,000 and includes a $480 flush of the "DSG" transmission. But the savings over 3 years of using diesel compared to premium 91 octane (which it seems most cars take these days) is roughly $1250 (compared to a 27 MPG combined average fuel economy vehicle).

That being said, there is a lot to love about the TDI, it's a torquey motor (unlike the Prius) and gets potentially 45-55 MPG on the highway depending upon speed. That's over 800 miles on a tank, enough for a couple of days driving. That's a pretty impressive figure if it means I visit the petrol station LESS often.

I'm with you though, a second ICE car to handle the out-of-town trips makes sense in a two-car household. If you can have three cars, we could always hang on to our Sienna (2004) and just have two EV's.

LTLFTcomposite said:

I've heard not-so-great things about VW when they get past the three year mark, expensive to repair stuff goes. All anecdotal though.

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My previous car was a VW, which had no mechanical problems to speak of. But while the mechanical engineering was great, I had no END of electrical problems beginning around the 8 year mark.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=3956

Sounds like your price range?

LakeLeaf said:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=3956

Sounds like your price range?

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Yeah, but isn't that a gas hog?

Any opinions on the 2012 Versa? My ins co on line car buying service shows them wicked cheap.

For price vs. fuel efficiency in an ICE it's kinda hard to beat a Corolla. Yes, a little boring, and definitely no luxury car, but it's solid family transportation.

What you're looking for doesn't exist. The older parallel hybrid technologies simply add more in cost than you can expect to recover in savings at the pump over any reasonable period, if ever, and the newer technologies, like eAssist, which are cost effective, are only found on more expensive cars because they're new and new is always more costly.

If you need a car now and you're looking for cheap then it's hard to beat a 4 cylinder economobile like a Corolla or a Fit or a Civic. Personally if I were looking at a small family vehicle the criterion at the top of my list would be safety not fuel economy but that's me.

Personally I'd recommend a 2011 or 2012 Hyundai Elantra. You may be able to find some good deals on a 2011 right now. My first car was a 2005 Elantra GT hatchback and it was a really fantastic car. I traded it in for the Prius because I got a higher paying job and it was the only time Toyota offered incentives on the Prius (there were also still IRS rebates) so I got a really good deal, otherwise I'd have kept the Elantra until I got a plug-in.

Hyundai's quality has really advanced and they really do stand behind their cars with great customer support. The only things that ever went wrong with my Elantra in 50,000 miles was the battery died (replaced under warranty despite being a "wear" item) and the LED third brake light. There was absolutely no fuss in getting the warranty work done. Dealing with Toyota on warranty repairs for the Prius has occasionally been a challenge involving writing letters to them and calling them.

I've test driven the new Elantra and it is very well priced, gets 40MPG on the highway, and has a really comfortable ride. If I were going to buy an ICE car right now as a "road trip" type vehicle then I'd either get a new Elantra or Tucson.

PhatBoyG said:

...
That being said, there is a lot to love about the TDI, it's a torquey motor (unlike the Prius) and gets potentially 45-55 MPG on the highway depending upon speed. That's over 800 miles on a tank, enough for a couple of days driving. That's a pretty impressive figure if it means I visit the petrol station LESS often.
...

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Well, I really think it's important that you be realistic about the range you will likely get on a TDI. I have owned 4 TDI's over the last 10 years and VW has definitely made improvements to them, especially emissions (the newest one virtually eliminates nitrous oxide without uria... very impressive!) but to get more torque and overall perfomance out of the newer engines they have sacrificed fuel economy and that was a serious buzz kill for me. Almost out of denial, VW has hired their own company to do the fuel mileage testing because they claim the EPA is too conservative. My experience was the EPA rating were pretty on target. My 2000 Jetta TDI Sedan with manual shift was the only one I could get 700 miles to a tank and that was only once on a very long steady highway trip. Like with Ev's, there are those who do better, but I was a relatively conservative driver. The more recent models got in the mid and upper 30's in stop and go traffic and I just rarely ever drove them long enough at one constant speed to see even 600 miles to a tank. good cars for the right person in the right commute, but I would not expect to ever consistently see anything like 800 miles to a tank if you are habitually commuting about 15-20 miles each way where the engine hardly has a chance to warm up.
g

right now used car prices are running 20-35% higher than normal due to supply shortages from the Earthquake. right now you every Prius on the market is going for $2-4000 more than they are worth which makes it tough, but all cars are high now