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Re: PG&E Shutting off power.

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:34 pm
by Nubo
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:05 am
Nubo wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:32 pm
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:33 am
...It is really quite pathetic how we place blame after the fact...
Even more pathetic that the "blame" issues forth from the President of the United States, not for any legitimate reasons, not from any knowledgeable and informed opinion, not from any desire to help the citizens he serves, but simply because of his political animosity towards a state with liberal policies and voting tendencies. Another opportunity to show his inflamed baboon-ass to the world.
I am shocked you take any stock in anything he has to say?
Not sure what you mean by me having taken stock?

Re: PG&E Shutting off power.

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:32 pm
by GRA
This was on the PBS NewsHour Thursday, and it's one of the competing plans to get PG&E out of bankruptcy. It's mainly an interview with San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo:
Could selling PG&E to its customers help solve California’s power problems?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/could ... r-problems

Re: PG&E Shutting off power.

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:20 pm
by goldbrick
Regarding the POTUS, I change the station or turn off my radio as soon as I hear the name. I think a lot of the reason he's gotten so far is the media buzz he generates so I'm no longer feeding into it. I do miss out some of the day-to-day shenanigans, but as they say, 'you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows'.

Re: PG&E Shutting off power.

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:21 am
by LTLFTcomposite
Democracy may die in darkness but some democrats appear to be flourishing in it at ratepayers expense.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... utType=amp

Still I'm left wondering just what sort "infrastructure upgrades" are people thinking were neglected?

Re: PG&E Shutting off power.

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:56 am
by Zythryn
LTLFTcomposite wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:21 am
Democracy may die in darkness but some democrats appear to be flourishing in it at ratepayers expense.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... utType=amp

Still I'm left wondering just what sort "infrastructure upgrades" are people thinking were neglected?
From what I recall, one of the primary things not being done was clearing trees from lines and poles.
In Minnesota the local utilities do any cutting/trimming of tree branches that are interfering with the lines or local transformers.

Re: PG&E Shutting off power.

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 am
by cwerdna
Zythryn wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:56 am
LTLFTcomposite wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:21 am
Democracy may die in darkness but some democrats appear to be flourishing in it at ratepayers expense.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... utType=amp

Still I'm left wondering just what sort "infrastructure upgrades" are people thinking were neglected?
From what I recall, one of the primary things not being done was clearing trees from lines and poles.
In Minnesota the local utilities do any cutting/trimming of tree branches that are interfering with the lines or local transformers.
Sometimes, https://twitter.com/PGE4Me tweets examples of damage found during inspections before re-energizing power lines after a PSPS.

Here are some examples:
https://twitter.com/PGE4Me/status/1190102121078808576
https://twitter.com/PGE4Me/status/1189741376616980480
https://twitter.com/PGE4Me/status/1189671217269264385
https://twitter.com/PGE4Me/status/1184302424355475461
https://twitter.com/PGE4Me/status/1183167024622645249
https://twitter.com/PGE4Me/status/1182854531694112770

I found this report filed w/the CPUC after the PSPS that affected me: https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/uploadedFiles/C ... Report.pdf. Page 93 (Appendix D) has some example pics of damage.

The topic of why not putting more power lines underground has come up but the issue is cost.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 946935002/
It costs about $3 million per mile to convert underground electric distribution lines from overhead, while the cost to build a mile of new overhead line is less than a third of that, at approximately $800,000 per mile, according to a section on PG&E's website called Facts About Undergrounding Power Lines.

California has 25,526 miles of higher voltage transmission lines, and 239,557 miles of distribution lines, two-thirds of which are overhead, according to CPUC. Less than 100 miles per year are transitioned underground, meaning it would take more than 1,000 years to underground all the lines at the current rate.

$15,000 for every PG&E customer?

PG&E, the state's largest utility, maintains approximately 81,000 miles of overhead distribution lines and approximately 26,000 miles of underground distribution lines. It also has about 18,000 miles of larger transmission lines, the majority of which are overhead lines.

At a cost of $3 million per mile, undergrounding 81,000 miles of distribution lines would cost $243 billion. PG&E has 16 million customers; distributing that expense equally would amount to a bill of more than $15,000 per account.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/ ... 503808.php says
As a 2017 San Francisco Chronicle story notes, it costs about $1.16 million per mile to install underground distribution lines. In cities, that number is much higher; work in San Jose cost $4.6 million per mile. Overhead lines cost about $448,800 per mile in comparison.

Most of the higher costs are associated with digging trenches for the lines. There is also the cost of repaving roads and other environmental factors, such as flooding or earthquakes.

Re: PG&E Shutting off power.

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:17 am
by LTLFTcomposite
We got the same thing in Florida after the hurricanes, OMG the electric company is so stupid why aren't the power lines underground!
Then the costs and what it would do to everyones electric bill came to light and the first world hardship of being without power for a few days maybe once or twice in a lifetime was quickly forgotten. The end result was more concrete poles so restoration after a storm was much quicker. Also some "smart grid" stuff, I suppose that helps them diagnose issues proactively. Hopefully they get more out of that than sending me an email telling me the power is out.

Re: PG&E Shutting off power.

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:43 am
by Nubo
LTLFTcomposite wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:21 am
Democracy may die in darkness but some democrats appear to be flourishing in it at ratepayers expense.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... utType=amp

Still I'm left wondering just what sort "infrastructure upgrades" are people thinking were neglected?
Lol, another poor spending decision by PG&E?

Are you advocating against corporate campaign contributions? If so, we agree!

Re: PG&E Shutting off power.

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:25 pm
by LTLFTcomposite
To paraphrase Michael Corleone they're all part of the same hypocrisy.

Sounds like Mr Newsom is jockeying to make it a state owned and operated enterprise. I don't have a dog in that fight (wow that's un pc) but I sort hope it happens because it would be interesting to see how it works out.

Re: PG&E Shutting off power.

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:26 pm
by GRA
Seeing as how there are large numbers of government-operated (mostly by municipalities) utilities in the U.S., it's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that this could be done with PG&E, although they are the largest IOU in the country. LADWP with 1.43 million customers is the largest such in the U.S. (outside of Puerto Rico, whose government utility is an example of how not to run things). PG&E has 5.4 million customers (16 million people), so about 4 times larger than LADWP.

The issue with PG&E is lack of basic maintenance (tree-trimming etc.) as well as the simple aging of their infrastructure and the failure to upgrade/replace it, i.e. deferring maintenance year after year while continuing to pay out dividends to shareholders, at the same time having to deal with lots of independent and even individual power producers (PV on houses) when the existing grid was never designed for that.