rogersleaf
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Mar 2019
Leaf Number: 307726
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:36 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:... or a barely-warmed-over Leaf That will be affordable (until the subsidy is gone) but outdated.
Interesting you mentioned this topic. Currently, my LEAF is at 41K miles (out of 45K on the lease) and the lease is due in May. My own valuation of the car is roughly 1/2 the residual buyout (at least what I would be willing to pay to keep it). So, almost certain this car is going to be returned in May with 44,997 miles and walk away from what is likely one of the best cars I've ever had. In recent months, I've starting looking around at what is next and not seeing much else available in this area as for EV's. The odd thing is LEAF's are so rare in this area they still look like a brand new model. The quirky styling is almost like having an iconic air-cooled VW Beetle.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.
2019 SL - White - w/Tech Package

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LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4780
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:30 pm

rmay635703 wrote:
I guess you are a unicorn.
With a J1772 tail!
rmay635703 wrote:
There are only 3 out hundreds where I work that view Evs positively, 1 out of 10 is a democrat.

That said my own very liberal aunt and uncle were leaning into me telling me my ev was too expensive to operate, even after I told them $17,500 out the door brand new and free electric.

Most Americans are more concerned with image than actual utility, cost or environmental issues.

I think most are trying to live in a fantasy world.

They don't want to be bothered to think.
I've heard various stories from times gone by of how bread and cereal vendors stocking store shelves would push all their competitors products down to the end of the aisle and display their own products over as much shelf space as possible. It's a simple reality that if my hamburger buns take up 20 feet of shelf space and yours only occupy 2 feet I will sell ten times as much as you.
I think it is much the same with cars.
The largest Nissan dealer in Florida has just over 1100 new vehicles in stock. Three of them are LEAFs. I've talked to their sales people, they will tell you that they sell a couple a month to people that specifically come in wanting one. One guy told me, if a customer asks for a LEAF he won't ever suggest a gas car, but conversely he won't try to sell a LEAF to a buyer who isn't already educated or interested.
The reality remains, once you get out of California or maybe some other CARB states, your choice is a LEAF, a Volt, or Tesla. That's not a lot of choices, sort of like having 1/8th of an inch of shelf space for your hamburger buns while your competitor has 100 feet.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14964
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:26 am

rogersleaf wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:... or a barely-warmed-over Leaf That will be affordable (until the subsidy is gone) but outdated.
Interesting you mentioned this topic. Currently, my LEAF is at 41K miles (out of 45K on the lease) and the lease is due in May. My own valuation of the car is roughly 1/2 the residual buyout (at least what I would be willing to pay to keep it). So, almost certain this car is going to be returned in May with 44,997 miles and walk away from what is likely one of the best cars I've ever had. In recent months, I've starting looking around at what is next and not seeing much else available in this area as for EV's. The odd thing is LEAF's are so rare in this area they still look like a brand new model. The quirky styling is almost like having an iconic air-cooled VW Beetle.
love your timing. you will have 3X more choices than I had. I just turned mine in on Thurs and returned home with an S 30. same price as the old one.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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abasile
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:43 am

LeftieBiker wrote:It's quite true that this subsidy is almost literally the least of our worries, but for those like me who can only afford a new EV if it's leased and the subsidy is applied to the lease, it's pretty important on the personal scale.
Then why not buy used? In the long run, buying cars that are a few years old, and holding onto them for a while, can be a great way to save money. Sure, one won't get all of the latest and greatest features this way, but as long as one's requirements are met, who cares?
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2595
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:31 am

Due to CARB requirements, those in California will continue to have a great selection of new and used (lease return, etc.) EVs to choose from after the Federal tax credits disappear. Without mandates and/or incentives to sell them, car makers are likely to discontinue offering them in other markets. Hopefully, BMW, Nissan, and Tesla will continue to offer them nationwide.


Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

smkettner
Posts: 7492
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:38 am

Any way you slice it the path leads to solar panels making electricity and BEVs for transportation.
This will continue to slowly creep into the fabric of our economy regardless of the president.

We can go right back to the '70s when the stodgy American car manufacturers were getting killed by reliability and fuel efficiency of the imports. BEVs are just the next level up. GM can survive only so long on 10 mpg Suburbans and Corvettes. Just wait until OPEC realizes we are addicted again....
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15309
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:06 pm

Then why not buy used?
I need a 100 mile range car. 200 is optional, but 100 is necessary, so I can actually drive 70 miles in Winter.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14964
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:08 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Then why not buy used?
I need a 100 mile range car. 200 is optional, but 100 is necessary, so I can actually drive 70 miles in Winter.
my Winters are nothing compared to yours (as it is, Fall was eliminated by Global Warming this year it seems...) but my LEAF will do at least 110 in crap weather and got a realistic range near 130 miles the other day (but realize with no Fall, it was Summer weather.. :) )
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:02 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:(as it is, Fall was eliminated by Global Warming this year it seems...)
Perhaps it seems that way to you, but you cannot sense a temperature difference of only 0.4 degrees Celsius above the average:

Image
The unseasonably-warm temperatures in NA this fall are due to two factors: 1) The polar vortex is pushing incredibly cold weather to Russia, making it warmer here and 2) we just had one of the largest El Ninos on record. Those are two things we can feel.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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abasile
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:53 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Then why not buy used?
I need a 100 mile range car. 200 is optional, but 100 is necessary, so I can actually drive 70 miles in Winter.
With the Chevy Bolt and Tesla Model 3 coming, I'm thinking that prices on used 30 kWh LEAFs will drop significantly.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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