rmay635703
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:52 am

Pansy gen y and millennial get their feelings hurt and won't vote.

The cause of the Great Recession was the same as the Great Depression,
Lindsey graham and mckaine overturned glass stegal .

The previous Clinton spoke against it but caved to bipartisan pressure late in his presidency.

Reinstate glass segal which worked for over 60 years and the conflicts of interest that cause bank failure will go away overnight.
Last edited by rmay635703 on Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:56 am

Funny I consider myself conservative or right leaning, but I'm concerned if not passionate about CO2 emissions, renewable energy, transportation electrification and environmental concerns. If I'm not driving a car with a plug you can be damn sure it won't have more than four cylinders.
The guy in the cube next to me is a liberal Democrat, freaking out over the outcome of this election. But he thinks climate change is bullshit and drives a huge V8 pickup truck with no apparent functional need. I've talked to him about the rationale and science behind climate change and environmental risks of tar sands pipelines but he thinks I'm full of it.
Go figure.
What's interesting though is he does think Teslas are cool, and said he'd like to have one some day.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:58 am

EV subsidies from the federal government (quite obviously) will likely be eliminated probably one of the first 100 days:

Auto manufacturer's Oct 19, 2012 request to EPA for waiver from CARB:

http://www.globalautomakers.org/sites/d ... -19-12.pdf

"It is highly unlikely that the required infrastructure and the level of consumer demand for ZEVs will be sufficient by MY2018 in either California or in the individual Section 177 States to support the ZEV sales requirements mandated by CARB. EPA should therefore deny, at the present time, California’s waiver request for the ZEV program for these model years. During the interim, Global Automakers and the Alliance believe that California and EPA, with full auto industry participation, should implement a review for the ZEV program similar to the mid-term review process adopted under the federal GHG and CAFE regulations for MYs2017 through 2025."

That's a whole lot of gobbledy goop to say, "keep the traveling provision so we can only sell cars in California at the minimum number, and not sell any in the other CARB states."

The auto manufacturers lost.

******

November 10, 2016, two days after the election of Trump, "Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers" request relief from California Air Resources Board (CARB) Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) mandates, U.S. government Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requirements for Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE), plus weakening of autonomous car rules.

How do you think a Trump administration will handle this?


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos ... SKBN1352EI

**********

CARB states - Arizona, California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, District of Columbia.

CARB-Zero Emission Vehicle states - California’s ZEV program has now been adopted by the states of Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont. These states, known as the “Section 177 states,” have chosen to adopt California's air quality standards in lieu of federal requirements as authorized under Section 177 of the federal Clean Air Act. Additionally, California’s GHG standards are now spelled out federal law. Maine, Washington DC and New Jersey are participating with ZEV initiatives, but are not signatory CARB-ZEV states.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2014/zev2014/zev14isor.pdf

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JimSouCal
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:18 am

TonyWilliams wrote: <snip>
November 10, 2016, two days after the election of Trump, "Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers" request relief from California Air Resources Board (CARB) Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) mandates, U.S. government Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requirements for Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE), plus weakening of autonomous car rules.

How do you think a Trump administration will handle this?
Wow, weakening of autonomous car rules too... Ok.. Not sure what that means, but this will be "interesting". Given the Myron Ebell is Trump's lead on this, and he want to disband the EPA (dating from Nixon), I'd guess your inclinations are correct.

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Nubo
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:31 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:California is still free to do what they want,no ? CARB mandates unaffected?
No guarantees. Under Bush II, the federal EPA sued California over their right to independently regulate CO2. California prevailed in the Supreme Court.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:39 am

johnlocke wrote:Don't any of you remember the "great Recession"? Brought to you courtesy of the Republicans and their "who needs regulations" attitude. ...
Not so clear-cut. A major factor was the dismantling of the Glass-Steagal Act, which happened during the Clinton administration. I remember it well. I was working for a bank at the time and when I read it in the paper (remember those) I thought "they must be out of their minds". Neither party is blameless.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:58 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Funny I consider myself conservative or right leaning, but I'm concerned if not passionate about CO2 emissions, renewable energy, transportation electrification and environmental concerns. If I'm not driving a car with a plug you can be damn sure it won't have more than four cylinders.
The guy in the cube next to me is a liberal Democrat, freaking out over the outcome of this election. But he thinks climate change is bullshit and drives a huge V8 pickup truck with no apparent functional need. I've talked to him about the rationale and science behind climate change and environmental risks of tar sands pipelines but he thinks I'm full of it.
Go figure.
What's interesting though is he does think Teslas are cool, and said he'd like to have one some day.
change their 0-60 time to 7 seconds and I guarantee his interest will fade faster than a Greenland Ice cap
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rogersleaf
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:40 pm

Personally don't believe EV subsidies will continue much longer without an extremely strong economic argument. In reality, it's the same middle-America voters that put Trump over the top who are basically subsidizing EV use, which is mostly concentrated in the CARB states. That won't pass the smell test much longer with this government balance. As another member suggested, maybe have a US-built requirement. Maybe it's a domestic energy argument. Last time I checked my local power utility, my LEAF is @ 65% coal powered, which I'm certain will cause outrage with ecologists. However, It is energy that is not coming from a hostile foreign source. I do know that without subsidizing the extremely excessive depreciation loss, this product dies an economic death very quickly in a $2/gal gasoline market.
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rmay635703
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:03 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Funny I consider myself conservative or right leaning, but I'm concerned if not passionate about CO2 emissions, renewable energy, transportation electrification and environmental concerns.

What's interesting though is he does think Teslas are cool, and said he'd like to have one some day.
I guess you are a unicorn.

There are only 3 out hundreds where I work that view Evs positively, 1 out of 10 is a democrat.

That said my own very liberal aunt and uncle were leaning into me telling me my ev was too expensive to operate, even after I told them $17,500 out the door brand new and free electric.

Most Americans are more concerned with image than actual utility, cost or environmental issues.

I think most are trying to live in a fantasy world.

They don't want to be bothered to think.

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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:08 pm

Even "coal-powered" EVs are much better than ICE cars because of the centralized power source and much greater overall efficiency. I think it's a mistake to expect something like the subsidy continuing for US-Made or US-assembled EVs, because ending the subsidy isn't about rational economics - it's about making a political statement to the US Right, and punishing the "Left" such as it is here. That subsidy will be going completely away ASAP - probably before Spring. With Nissan dropping the ball on competing with the Bolt our choices are going to be an over-priced GM EV with lots of power and range but unknown build quality, or a barely-warmed-over Leaf That will be affordable (until the subsidy is gone) but outdated.

It's quite true that this subsidy is almost literally the least of our worries, but for those like me who can only afford a new EV if it's leased and the subsidy is applied to the lease, it's pretty important on the personal scale. On the larger environmental scale, I think it's been clear for some time now that the US isn't going to change course enough to halt or even slow climate change, but it still hurts to see that inertia set in stone, as long-term policy.
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