GRA
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:51 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
GRA wrote:Reagan's appointments of James Watt at Interior and Anne Gorsuch Burford at EPA were the best recruitment boosters the Sierra Club, NRDC, FoE, etc. ever had, and with a Climate Change Denier-in-Chief in office, I expect a similar increase in membership and funds..
They can have all the members they want. One party rule is what we have, just like China, so those members can make all the noise they want. Sue all the want.

The Republicans win.

And, Republicans will keep winning in 2020, when the Republican controlled House of Representatives does some updated Gerrymandering without any pesky opposition, locking them in to 2030.

The Senate is more precarious in 2018, but beyond that glimmer of hope, Trump will be around until 2020 / 2024, they will have the Supreme Court locked up to rubber stamp any law as "constitutional", and there's not an f-ing thing anybody can do about it.
It's easy to be depressed with the inevitable losses and setbacks, but increased membership and support means more money for lawsuits, more people attending hearings and protests, etc., more people voting green in 2018 and 2020, so even if the federal government is a dead loss, state governments don't have to be - e.g. California voted for Clinton by 61 to 34%, a margin of 2.5 million votes, so environmental fights will move from federal to the state and local levels.

Environmentalism survived what seemed to many of us like 8 endless years under Reagan and the succeeding somewhat less doom-and-gloom 4 years under Bush 41; it can survive 4 (or or even 8) years of Trump, and as with Reagan/Bush, come out stronger as a result. What's the alternative, to throw up our hands and say 'a pox on you all, I'm done'?
Last edited by GRA on Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:53 pm

GRA wrote:What's the alternative, to throw up our hands and say 'a pox on you all, I'm done'?
Well, one angle that I will promote is secession from the USA.

GRA
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:01 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
GRA wrote:What's the alternative, to throw up our hands and say 'a pox on you all, I'm done'?
Well, one angle that I will promote is secession from the USA.
Maybe "Ecotopia" and Ecotopia Emerging" will go back into print: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia

IIRR, the latter was largely responsible for me getting into PV, as the protagonist (a teenage girl) develops ridiculously cheap PV cells, capable of manufacture by almost anyone.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:22 pm

California is still free to do what they want,no ? CARB mandates unaffected?
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:34 pm

Hey Tony, stay away from those beverage cups in the corner. There are precious few of us here who have any inkling of what's about to happen.
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:05 pm

Even if we don't go to where Trump will likely go (Authoritarian Dystopia) - a recession on global scale and disruption in trade in possible. Infact tariffs are his promise, right ? That will result in retaliatory tariffs leading to global economic disruption, if not collapse. That will hurt EVs in a big way.

Second, since the Trump will gut regulations - most manufacturers will go back to SUVs. No need to worry about CAFE.

Do we need to talk about what will happen when he lights up the nuke ?
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:22 pm

evnow wrote:Even if we don't go to where Trump will likely go (Authoritarian Dystopia) - a recession on global scale and disruption in trade in possible.
Yes and alternative possibility is that the U.S. middle class gets rich.
Infact tariffs are his promise, right ?
Yes. I don't think it is a good idea to ship $40 an hour manufacturing jobs elsewhere , where they make $2 per hour.
That will result in retaliatory tariffs leading to global economic disruption, if not collapse.
No, it will lead to U.S. prosperity. China has been playing an unfair game for many years. I'm glad the U.S. is finally going to put a stop to that.
That will hurt EVs in a big way.
Nah, EVs are on a roll, with all the large manufacturers having plans to rollout high volume EV platforms with multiple cars per platform. Companies like mazda with out EV plans will go bankrupt.
Second, since the Trump will gut regulations - most manufacturers will go back to SUVs. No need to worry about CAFE.
I think we will see a revival of the minivan because driverless TaaS will take over. Google is using the plug-in minivan. I'm sure if there was an all electric minivan they would have chosen that instead.
Do we need to talk about what will happen when he lights up the nuke ?
Should we wait till north Korea nukes us first? Or sit patiently while Russia expands its nuclear arsenal? I'd rather have a bull in office rather than sheep.
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:51 am

DanCar wrote:Should we wait till north Korea nukes us first? Or sit patiently while Russia expands its nuclear arsenal? I'd rather have a bull in office rather than sheep.
This.
When Hillary talked about "you have four minutes" (thanks for confirming that information for the world btw, rather than leaving it open to speculation) the implication was that a trigger happy DT would jump at the chance to unleash Armageddon, while she would be the cool cucumber that saves humanity by not taking the bait so it all turns out happily in a Hollywood ending. While that makes for a feel good story, the perception that a US president is so peace loving they couldn't bring themselves to retaliate is a threat to world security beyond measure.
If we're going to have another cold war bring it on, we won the last one.
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:01 am

This is certainly...interesting. Personally I prefer to deal with small impoverished bullies who may, at some point, acquire a dangerous weapon or two, as just that. Apparently the 'Fear first, act second, think about it afterwards' mentality is alive and well, though, even here. This species really isn't ready for prime time.
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Re: Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:51 am

jjeff wrote:
powersurge wrote: ....Hey, we all have bought our cars at a good price... I'm not concerned with the future of the $7500 refund.....
We all didn't get our Leafs for a song, many including myself with my first Leaf paid in excess of $30k for the privilege of driving an EV, which with the $7500 rebate(I only got $6k due to my tax liability) brought my S down to the mid $20s, the most I've ever paid for a vehicle but I have no regrets. My second Leaf, a '12SL I got for a song, but it's really the only reason I got the second, how could I pass it up.
That said I feel it's almost time for the subsidies to end, they served their purpose to help spark ;) a revolution which I believe will continue even without the subsidies. After all I believe without intervention they were about to run out anyway and with the introduction of vehicles like the Prius Prime and others I really believe we've passed the point of no return. Not that I won't personally miss the rebates as I plan on only buying EVs or PHEV from now on but it is what is, the country as a majority has decided and all we can do is live with it....
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