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Nubo
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue May 11, 2021 5:48 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:54 pm
...Indeed, an alien or ghost could've intervened and moved the driver, or maybe the recoil from impact could've ejected the driver into the back seat, but Occam's razor rules out the first possibility, and newton's first law rules out the second. If you don't start with the assumption that Tesla's autopilot is at fault, then the truth is much simpler to grasp.
The hard part is putting myself into the mindset of someone who would attempt to abuse the car's systems in this way. It's hard to label it as anything short of insanity. And so we look for a more reasonable explanation but sometimes people are just crazy.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed May 12, 2021 4:26 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:54 pm
GRA wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:42 pm
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 2:58 pm


There's nothing curious about it. The driver lost control and crashed within 550 ft of his driveway. The doors were jammed shut from the crash (which happens - remember Paul Walker?), and the driver tried to flee through the backseat, but didn't make it (that's why he was in the backseat). We've long known that autopilot wasn't a contributing factor and this report was released to settle the FUD.

The constable at the scene should never have claimed that no one was driving the car. He should've stopped with "no one was in the driver's seat" and claimed anything as fact beyond that.

You know for a fact that the driver tried to flee through the backseat? Shouldn't you stop with "no one was in the driver's seat" and not claim anything as fact beyond that?
My original hypothesis (posted last week) was that the driver fled the scene. Now that they have conclusive evidence that the driver died at the scene, many suppositions can be laid down to rest:
- The driver was found dead in the back seat.
- Driver was seen entering the driver's seat and driving away by local security cameras.
- car had 550 ft to accelerate to impact speed.

Indeed, an alien or ghost could've intervened and moved the driver, or maybe the recoil from impact could've ejected the driver into the back seat, but Occam's razor rules out the first possibility, and newton's first law rules out the second. If you don't start with the assumption that Tesla's autopilot is at fault, then the truth is much simpler to grasp.

An alternative explanation is that the car stopped and the driver moved from the front to the back before resuming the drive. We don't yet know what happened during the entire drive. The NTSB issued this today:
UPDATE 5/12/21: An NTSB spokesperson clarified the agency's findings about whether the driver was seated at the wheel at the time of the crash with this statement to Car and Driver: "The NTSB has made no conclusions about the operation of the crash vehicle—we are only stating the facts as we know them at this early stage of our investigation and all we know at this point, with regard to vehicle operation, is that Autosteer was not available on the section of road where the crash happened when we tested the exemplar vehicle. Autopilot would not engage because Autosteer was not available. We have not made any conclusion about the operation of the crash vehicle during the crash sequence. That remains under investigation."
Hopefully some other info will show up to answer this question.

Meanwhile, a local idiot was arrested after being video'd from another car riding in the back of his Tesla on I-80, with no one at the wheel. He's an arrogant young prick, and says he plans to continue doing so. In fact, in an interview after he got home he says that after he spent the night in jail, he got home the same way. See the video (unfortunately, you have to wait for the ad to play first): https://www.ktvu.com/news/safety-regula ... lot-system

Seeing as how Tesla can do over-the-air updates, I wonder if they will disable A/P in this moron's car? The alternative, if/when he hits and injures or kills someone, is that any attempt by Tesla to claim that that this was unforeseeable goes right out the window. And this and the CR test show how trivially easy it continues to be to fool A/P into controlling the car with no one at the wheel.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed May 12, 2021 9:41 pm

'I'm very rich': Back seat Tesla rider pulls same stunt, but in new car after jail release
https://www.ktvu.com/news/back-seat-tes ... il-release

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GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed May 12, 2021 10:15 pm

^^^ Make that rich arrogant young prick.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Nubo
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed May 12, 2021 10:27 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:41 pm
'I'm very rich': Back seat Tesla rider pulls same stunt, but in new car after jail release
https://www.ktvu.com/news/back-seat-tes ... il-release
Suspend his license for 10 years. Maybe by then FSD will be a reality (though I have my doubts).
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Thu May 13, 2021 7:18 am

GRA wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 4:26 pm
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:54 pm
GRA wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:42 pm



You know for a fact that the driver tried to flee through the backseat? Shouldn't you stop with "no one was in the driver's seat" and not claim anything as fact beyond that?
My original hypothesis (posted last week) was that the driver fled the scene. Now that they have conclusive evidence that the driver died at the scene, many suppositions can be laid down to rest:
- The driver was found dead in the back seat.
- Driver was seen entering the driver's seat and driving away by local security cameras.
- car had 550 ft to accelerate to impact speed.

Indeed, an alien or ghost could've intervened and moved the driver, or maybe the recoil from impact could've ejected the driver into the back seat, but Occam's razor rules out the first possibility, and newton's first law rules out the second. If you don't start with the assumption that Tesla's autopilot is at fault, then the truth is much simpler to grasp.

An alternative explanation is that the car stopped and the driver moved from the front to the back before resuming the drive. We don't yet know what happened during the entire drive. The NTSB issued this today:
UPDATE 5/12/21: An NTSB spokesperson clarified the agency's findings about whether the driver was seated at the wheel at the time of the crash with this statement to Car and Driver: "The NTSB has made no conclusions about the operation of the crash vehicle—we are only stating the facts as we know them at this early stage of our investigation and all we know at this point, with regard to vehicle operation, is that Autosteer was not available on the section of road where the crash happened when we tested the exemplar vehicle. Autopilot would not engage because Autosteer was not available. We have not made any conclusion about the operation of the crash vehicle during the crash sequence. That remains under investigation."
Hopefully some other info will show up to answer this question.
Except that TACC won't get you up past the speed limit (25mph in unmarked residential streets). So no, the driver had to have his foot on the accelerator to get up to crashing speed.
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Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Fri May 14, 2021 10:09 am

cwerdna wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:41 pm
'I'm very rich': Back seat Tesla rider pulls same stunt, but in new car after jail release
https://www.ktvu.com/news/back-seat-tes ... il-release
You just can't prevent human stupidity. The stupidest thing we can do is to try to prevent human stupidity. That's why strollers come with warning labels about "taking the baby out, before folding the stroller". As a parent I'm appalled at the waste of time and material spent to affix these warnings labels (there are half a dozen others on that stroller) that add a significant amount of cost to the stroller for no additional benefit (those stupid enough to make that mistake generally wouldn't read the warning labels anyway).

Humans make mistakes, fine. But deliberately circumventing safety systems isn't "a mistake". There needs to be a line drawn where the "driver" is ultimately responsible for their own actions.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Fri May 14, 2021 12:09 pm

Those labels add little cost. And that Tesla A-hole should have his license yanked.
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Triggerhappy007
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat May 15, 2021 4:55 am

cwerdna wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:41 pm
'I'm very rich': Back seat Tesla rider pulls same stunt, but in new car after jail release
https://www.ktvu.com/news/back-seat-tes ... il-release
He said "Teslas don't crash." LOL, he's inside his own bubble.
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Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Sat May 15, 2021 8:43 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 12:09 pm
Those labels add little cost. And that Tesla A-hole should have his license yanked.
Multiplied by the hundreds of millions annually (those labels are international), those little pieces of plasticized paper and glue add up to a pretty significant cost. They're much less significant than disposable plastic-ware, but producing useless things is still a waste of resources.
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

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