Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 2:58 pm
GRA wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 10:51 pm Some more info, via ABG:
NTSB: Tesla owner started trip in driver's seat before fatal crash

The preliminary report offers no explanation as to the cause


https://www.autoblog.com/2021/05/10/tes ... sb-report/

Home security camera footage shows that the owner of a Tesla got into the driver's seat of the car shortly before a deadly crash in suburban Houston, according to a government report Monday.

But the preliminary report on the crash that killed two men doesn't explain the mystery of why authorities found no one behind the wheel of the car, which burst into flames after crashing about 550 feet (170 meters) from the owner's home. Nor does it conclusively say whether Tesla's “Autopilot” partially automated driver-assist system was operating at the time of the crash, although it appears unlikely.

The National Transportation Safety Board said it's still investigating all aspects of the crash. An onboard data storage device in the console, however, was destroyed by fire. A computer that records air bag and seat belt status as well as speed and acceleration was damaged and is being examined at an NTSB lab.

The NTSB said it tested a different Tesla vehicle on the same road, and the Autopilot driver-assist system could not be fully used. Investigators could not get the system's automated steering system to work, but were able to use Traffic Aware Cruise Control.

get the system's automated steering system to work, but were able to use Traffic Aware Cruise Control.

Autopilot needs both the cruise control and the automatic steering to function. Traffic Aware Cruise Control can keep the car a safe distance from vehicles in front of it, while autosteer keeps it in its own lane.

“The NTSB continues to collect data to analyze the crash dynamics, postmortem toxicology test results, seat belt use, occupant egress and electric vehicle fires,” the agency said in its report. “All aspects of the crash remain under investigation as the NTSB determines the probable cause. . . .”

Curiouser and curiouser. Direct link to report: https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-release ... 10510.aspx
There's nothing curious about it. The driver lost control and crashed within 550 ft of his driveway. The doors were jammed shut from the crash (which happens - remember Paul Walker?), and the driver tried to flee through the backseat, but didn't make it (that's why he was in the backseat). We've long known that autopilot wasn't a contributing factor and this report was released to settle the FUD.

The constable at the scene should never have claimed that no one was driving the car. He should've stopped with "no one was in the driver's seat" and claimed anything as fact beyond that.
Hey look! I said months ago that "the driver tried to flee through the backseat, but didn't make it", and now evidence shows that I was spot on!

https://electrek.co/2021/10/21/tesla-au ... tal-crash/

Some of us are just better at drawing logical conclusions. ;-)
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!
GRA
Posts: 13704
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

And finally we have confirmation of the details. Meanwhile: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 30#p611804
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

GRA wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:31 pm And finally we have confirmation of the details. Meanwhile: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 30#p611804
GRA wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:21 pm ABG:
Buttigieg defends safety agency appointment after Musk claims she's 'biased'
'He's welcome to call me if he's concerned'
https://www.autoblog.com/2021/10/23/pet ... t-twitter/

. . . Musk has taken umbrage with the appointment of Duke University engineering and computer science professor Missy Cummings as a safety adviser at the National Traffic Highway Safety Administration (NHTSA). “Objectively, her track record is extremely biased against Tesla,” he said Tuesday.

Cummings, who directs the Humans and Autonomy Laboratory at Duke, responded that she was “happy to sit down and talk” to Musk anytime.

Cummings has also been a frequent Twitter user, often airing her concerns over Tesla’s driver assistance technology and the company’s methods for rolling it out on the social media platform. In September, she sent a series of tweets criticizing Tesla’s rollout of the “safety score” as a way of allowing drivers access to its “Full Self-Driving” beta program.

But her criticisms of Tesla go back much further. Two years ago, Cummings said (also on Twitter) that Autopilot, Tesla’s advanced driver assistance system, “easily causes mode confusion, is unreliable and unsafe.” She added that NHTSA should require the automaker to turn it off.

Cummings’ nomination to the safety advisory role at NHTSA could suggest a more conservative stance on advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS) and Tesla at the agency in the future.

Of course, NHTSA and Tesla are no strangers. In August, the agency opened a safety probe into Autopilot, after discovering 12 incidents in which Tesla vehicles crashed into parked emergency vehicles. Regulators also investigated an incident involving a fatal crash in 2017 and 25 further crashes involving Tesla’s ADAS since that time.

As late as August, in response to a tweet asking Cummings whether she thinks FSD could ever achieve full autonomy, she said: “my prediction is never.” But that doesn’t mean she necessarily thinks LiDAR — light detection and ranging software that measures distance with pulses of laser light — is the answer either. Instead, she suggested that full self-driving will not be possible without “a complete rethink of reasoning under uncertainty” that can only be brought about through advances in deep learning. . . .

Right, because there's no conflict of interest in having someone who serves on the board of a LiDAR company being appointed to head a safety regulatory agency? (/s) She feels LiDAR is the only way to get safe autonomous driving, and I understand that you sympathize with her, but humans have been driving successfully for years without LiDAR. It is wrong to __assume__ that your way is the only correct one, and that everyone else has to follow it.

Nor is it a conflict of interest that she subscribes to a group who are so twisted in their hate of TSLA that they actively maintain a blocklist of anyone who holds dissenting opinions of their position and have been working for years towards the bankruptcy of a company? (/s) Look, I can understand not liking a company, but to actively block out people who hold thoughts different from your own is an invitation for confirmation bias, and that's what they have, which is why they've been wrong for so many years.

She is prejudiced against Tesla, and that's a fact. Her association to TSLAQ is such a big deal that she's deleted her twitter account and all evidence showing what kind of delusional people she's been cavorting with.
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!
GRA
Posts: 13704
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

IEVS:
Tesla Submits Partial Response In NHTSA Probe But It's Confidential
The EV maker is also under fire from NTSB for not complying with safety recommendations made in 2017.
https://insideevs.com/news/543409/tesla ... nse-nhtsa/


Re the latter part:
NTSB "deeply concerned" in letter to Tesla

The NHTSA is not the only organization asking Tesla to review its driver assistance tech. In an October 25 letter, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said it is “deeply concerned” at Tesla’s failure to respond to the safety recommendations issued in 2017 related to its Autopilot driver-assist feature.

Back then, the organization had called on Tesla and other manufacturers to limit the use of advanced driver-assist systems to roadways for which they were designed; NTSB also recommended automakers to develop more effective ways to ensure drivers were paying attention. Tesla was the only automaker not to respond, according to NTSB.

“If you are serious about putting safety front and center in Tesla vehicle design, I invite you to complete action on the safety recommendations we issued to you four years ago.”

NTSB Chairwoman Jennifer Homendy

In the letter, the NTSB adds that subsequent accidents in which Autopilot was involved clearly showed the cars’ “potential for misuse requires a system design change to ensure safety.”

The NTSB has no regulatory authority, but it relies on its powers of persuasion on government and industry.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
sparky
Posts: 743
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:55 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jan 2011
Location: SoCal

Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

I've been driving with FSDBeta for about a week. Despite issues I would expect in a beta version, if anything, the car under FSDBeta control, is so safety oriented that other drivers sometimes get annoyed. I'm constantly vigilant when using it and will override it when I think it's being too slow to move through an intersection or pass a stopped vehicle. And, of course sometimes it just does boneheaded things like change lanes for 2 secs and then change back; no cars around. ??!!
I have a standard route that I engage it on daily; lots of unprotected lefts and narrow roads with parked cars on both sides. Sun, rain and fog.
So, far it's quite remarkable but a work in progress for sure.
GRA
Posts: 13704
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

ABG:
Tesla’s in-dash video games can be played even while driving

Obviously unsafe

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/12/07/tes ... e-driving/

Many Tesla vehicles allow drivers to play a selection of games on the infotainment system while the car is in motion, according to a report by The New York Times. The company rolled out an update in the summer that reportedly let drivers play solitaire, jet fighter game "Sky Force Reloaded" and strategy title "The Battle of Polytopia: Moonrise" while on the road.

The touchscreen is said to display a warning before a game of solitaire starts. “Solitaire is a game for everyone, but playing while the car is in motion is only for passengers," the message reads, according to the Times. That indicates Tesla knows the game is playable while the car's moving.

Although players have to acknowledge that they're a passenger, the driver can tap that button and play the game. Even if a passenger is playing something, it's possible that a driver will divert their attention to the screen to see what's happening anyway.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says 3,142 people died in crashes involving distracted drivers in the U.S. in 2019. A 2017 study suggested that many infotainment features absorbed drivers' attention too long for them to be safe. Researchers at the University of Utah found that, when drivers used voice-based and touchscreen systems, they "took their hands, eyes and mind off the road for more than 24 seconds to complete tasks."

Drivers are supposed to keep their hands on the steering wheel when Tesla's Autopilot is engaged, but a recent study suggested drivers become less attentive when the mode is active. In August, the NHTSA said it was investigating Autopilot following a number of crashes with parked first responder vehicles. Those resulted in one death and 17 injuries.

Other automakers lock many touchscreen and infotainment features when the car is in motion. Stellantis (fka Fiat Chrysler), for instance, lets drivers and passengers watch a DVD on the dashboard screen in some vehicles, though only when the car's parked. NHTSA guidelines urge automakers to ensure that cars with infotainment devices prevent drivers from carrying out "inherently distracting secondary tasks while driving.”

Tesla has added a number of games to its infotainment system over the past few years. Until a few months ago, they were only playable while the car was parked. The Times says Tesla and CEO Elon Musk didn't respond to requests for comment — the company no longer has a PR department. Engadget has contacted NHTSA for comment.

I had though this was explicitly prohibited, not just an NHTSA 'guideline'. It certainly needs to be illegal, and if in fact this article is factually accurate, that Tesla allows this is just another example of their contempt for the safety of members of the non-Tesla public.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

GRA wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:25 pm ABG:
Tesla’s in-dash video games can be played even while driving

Obviously unsafe

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/12/07/tes ... e-driving/

Many Tesla vehicles allow drivers to play a selection of games on the infotainment system while the car is in motion, according to a report by The New York Times. The company rolled out an update in the summer that reportedly let drivers play solitaire, jet fighter game "Sky Force Reloaded" and strategy title "The Battle of Polytopia: Moonrise" while on the road.

The touchscreen is said to display a warning before a game of solitaire starts. “Solitaire is a game for everyone, but playing while the car is in motion is only for passengers," the message reads, according to the Times. That indicates Tesla knows the game is playable while the car's moving.

Although players have to acknowledge that they're a passenger, the driver can tap that button and play the game. Even if a passenger is playing something, it's possible that a driver will divert their attention to the screen to see what's happening anyway.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says 3,142 people died in crashes involving distracted drivers in the U.S. in 2019. A 2017 study suggested that many infotainment features absorbed drivers' attention too long for them to be safe. Researchers at the University of Utah found that, when drivers used voice-based and touchscreen systems, they "took their hands, eyes and mind off the road for more than 24 seconds to complete tasks."

Drivers are supposed to keep their hands on the steering wheel when Tesla's Autopilot is engaged, but a recent study suggested drivers become less attentive when the mode is active. In August, the NHTSA said it was investigating Autopilot following a number of crashes with parked first responder vehicles. Those resulted in one death and 17 injuries.

Other automakers lock many touchscreen and infotainment features when the car is in motion. Stellantis (fka Fiat Chrysler), for instance, lets drivers and passengers watch a DVD on the dashboard screen in some vehicles, though only when the car's parked. NHTSA guidelines urge automakers to ensure that cars with infotainment devices prevent drivers from carrying out "inherently distracting secondary tasks while driving.”

Tesla has added a number of games to its infotainment system over the past few years. Until a few months ago, they were only playable while the car was parked. The Times says Tesla and CEO Elon Musk didn't respond to requests for comment — the company no longer has a PR department. Engadget has contacted NHTSA for comment.

I had though this was explicitly prohibited, not just an NHTSA 'guideline'. It certainly needs to be illegal, and if in fact this article is factually accurate, that Tesla allows this is just another example of their contempt for the safety of members of the non-Tesla public.
That's an issue of perspective. The games are allowed to be played in much the same way as you're allowed to drive into oncoming traffic. If the driver actively bypasses that warning, then much like clicking the seatbelt behind you to defeat the seatbelt alert, it's the driver's fault.

Permitting the games to be played by the passengers is for the passenger's entertainment and doesn't interfere on any of the driver info (including navigation, which is diverted to the left-side of the screen). And game playing while the car is in motion can get pretty annoying for the passenger, since every time the driver puts the car into gear, the same warning pops up and forces the game to stop. It's really up to the driver to take ownership of their own actions.

And plenty of drivers currently text while driving and we don't blame the phone companies for being a distraction, right?!

Edit: Like with many things, you can't "accidentally" turn it on. It requires intentional action. Much like if the passenger was watching a movie on their phone, if the driver chooses to be distracted by what the passenger is doing, that's on the driver.
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!
GRA
Posts: 13704
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:51 pm
GRA wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:25 pm ABG:
Tesla’s in-dash video games can be played even while driving

Obviously unsafe

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/12/07/tes ... e-driving/

Many Tesla vehicles allow drivers to play a selection of games on the infotainment system while the car is in motion, according to a report by The New York Times. The company rolled out an update in the summer that reportedly let drivers play solitaire, jet fighter game "Sky Force Reloaded" and strategy title "The Battle of Polytopia: Moonrise" while on the road.

The touchscreen is said to display a warning before a game of solitaire starts. “Solitaire is a game for everyone, but playing while the car is in motion is only for passengers," the message reads, according to the Times. That indicates Tesla knows the game is playable while the car's moving.

Although players have to acknowledge that they're a passenger, the driver can tap that button and play the game. Even if a passenger is playing something, it's possible that a driver will divert their attention to the screen to see what's happening anyway.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says 3,142 people died in crashes involving distracted drivers in the U.S. in 2019. A 2017 study suggested that many infotainment features absorbed drivers' attention too long for them to be safe. Researchers at the University of Utah found that, when drivers used voice-based and touchscreen systems, they "took their hands, eyes and mind off the road for more than 24 seconds to complete tasks."

Drivers are supposed to keep their hands on the steering wheel when Tesla's Autopilot is engaged, but a recent study suggested drivers become less attentive when the mode is active. In August, the NHTSA said it was investigating Autopilot following a number of crashes with parked first responder vehicles. Those resulted in one death and 17 injuries.

Other automakers lock many touchscreen and infotainment features when the car is in motion. Stellantis (fka Fiat Chrysler), for instance, lets drivers and passengers watch a DVD on the dashboard screen in some vehicles, though only when the car's parked. NHTSA guidelines urge automakers to ensure that cars with infotainment devices prevent drivers from carrying out "inherently distracting secondary tasks while driving.”

Tesla has added a number of games to its infotainment system over the past few years. Until a few months ago, they were only playable while the car was parked. The Times says Tesla and CEO Elon Musk didn't respond to requests for comment — the company no longer has a PR department. Engadget has contacted NHTSA for comment.

I had though this was explicitly prohibited, not just an NHTSA 'guideline'. It certainly needs to be illegal, and if in fact this article is factually accurate, that Tesla allows this is just another example of their contempt for the safety of members of the non-Tesla public.
That's an issue of perspective. The games are allowed to be played in much the same way as you're allowed to drive into oncoming traffic. If the driver actively bypasses that warning, then much like clicking the seatbelt behind you to defeat the seatbelt alert, it's the driver's fault.

Permitting the games to be played by the passengers is for the passenger's entertainment and doesn't interfere on any of the driver info (including navigation, which is diverted to the left-side of the screen). And game playing while the car is in motion can get pretty annoying for the passenger, since every time the driver puts the car into gear, the same warning pops up and forces the game to stop. It's really up to the driver to take ownership of their own actions.

And plenty of drivers currently text while driving and we don't blame the phone companies for being a distraction, right?!

Edit: Like with many things, you can't "accidentally" turn it on. It requires intentional action. Much like if the passenger was watching a movie on their phone, if the driver chooses to be distracted by what the passenger is doing, that's on the driver.

Actually, I do blame the phone companies for allowing their phones to be used while driving, along with the drivers, since they are both putting my life at risk by their decisions. In the case of drivers using phones in cars, as I've mentioned, it's been happening at decreasing intervals, now down to about once every 10 days or less while I'm walking or biking when I avoid being injured or killed by one of these idiots. Which is why, even if I could still hear it, I put my phone away when I get into a car, and if I'm ever riding with anyone who uses one while moving, I'll ask that they pull over and let me out. I've even seen someone texting while riding their bike :roll: Clearly a favorite for a Darwin Award.

Your seat belt analogy is flawed. After all, if someone dies from not wearing their seat belt (the first fatal accident I happened upon was one such), they don't kill me too if I'm in another car. (I suppose in a head-on crash they could be catapulted through their windshield and then through mine. Not sure if that's ever happened).

This is totally unacceptable; we know there's no shortage of Homer Simpsons out there: https://images.app.goo.gl/85zZL1Q9M7gwRRu18, but companies don't have to enable their irresponsibility, especially when they have the power to prevent it. We've made using a phone while driving illegal, but that obviously isn't an adequate deterrent, and it doesn't matter whether it's hands-free or not - we know from human factors studies that carrying on a conversation or any other interactive mental activity involves far more distraction than when it's purely passive. This is the height of irresponsibility by Tesla. I had thought it was hard for them to surpass their past efforts in that vein. Turns out I was wrong.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

GRA wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:01 pm
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:51 pm
GRA wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:25 pm ABG:


https://www.autoblog.com/2021/12/07/tes ... e-driving/





I had though this was explicitly prohibited, not just an NHTSA 'guideline'. It certainly needs to be illegal, and if in fact this article is factually accurate, that Tesla allows this is just another example of their contempt for the safety of members of the non-Tesla public.
That's an issue of perspective. The games are allowed to be played in much the same way as you're allowed to drive into oncoming traffic. If the driver actively bypasses that warning, then much like clicking the seatbelt behind you to defeat the seatbelt alert, it's the driver's fault.

Permitting the games to be played by the passengers is for the passenger's entertainment and doesn't interfere on any of the driver info (including navigation, which is diverted to the left-side of the screen). And game playing while the car is in motion can get pretty annoying for the passenger, since every time the driver puts the car into gear, the same warning pops up and forces the game to stop. It's really up to the driver to take ownership of their own actions.

And plenty of drivers currently text while driving and we don't blame the phone companies for being a distraction, right?!

Edit: Like with many things, you can't "accidentally" turn it on. It requires intentional action. Much like if the passenger was watching a movie on their phone, if the driver chooses to be distracted by what the passenger is doing, that's on the driver.

Actually, I do blame the phone companies for allowing their phones to be used while driving, along with the drivers, since they are both putting my life at risk by their decisions. In the case of drivers using phones in cars, as I've mentioned, it's been happening at decreasing intervals, now down to about once every 10 days or less while I'm walking or biking when I avoid being injured or killed by one of these idiots. Which is why, even if I could still hear it, I put my phone away when I get into a car, and if I'm ever riding with anyone who uses one while moving, I'll ask that they pull over and let me out. I've even seen someone texting while riding their bike :roll: Clearly a favorite for a Darwin Award.

Your seat belt analogy is flawed. After all, if someone dies from not wearing their seat belt (the first fatal accident I happened upon was one such), they don't kill me too if I'm in another car. (I suppose in a head-on crash they could be catapulted through their windshield and then through mine. Not sure if that's ever happened).

This is totally unacceptable; we know there's no shortage of Homer Simpsons out there: https://images.app.goo.gl/85zZL1Q9M7gwRRu18, but companies don't have to enable their irresponsibility, especially when they have the power to prevent it. We've made using a phone while driving illegal, but that obviously isn't an adequate deterrent, and it doesn't matter whether it's hands-free or not - we know from human factors studies that carrying on a conversation or any other interactive mental activity involves far more distraction than when it's purely passive. This is the height of irresponsibility by Tesla. I had thought it was hard for them to surpass their past efforts in that vein. Turns out I was wrong.
The more you try to save the idiots from themselves, the more idiotic they become ... cue texting bicyclist. You've already done what you could by being vigilant yourself.
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Just posting this here to point out how the self-selection process of FSD Beta produces a better set of QC testers than any simulated environment: https://electrek.co/2022/01/17/elon-mus ... ving-beta/

Others are worried that they would become the un-suspecting victim of someone creating youtube videos of themselves asleep at the wheel of a car in FSD, when the reality (so far) is far from it. Despite the many youtube videos showing where FSD fails to handle the situation well, there hasn't been any accidents attributed to it (the claim filed with the NHTSA hasn't been substantiated). This shows that the current crop of beta testers (numbering in the thousands), knowing that they're responsible for their use of FSD, have been more diligent over it than some dedicated QC employees, and can produce millions of miles of actual test data faster than a dedicated program.

My position has always been that we need actual L5 autonomous systems ASAP, consequences being an acceptable price to pay, because the delay of such a system is more deaths and destruction. Others think the consequences aren't worth it. Let's not repeat these old back-n-forth arguments and just focus on its progress (or lack thereof) for now.
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

Return to “Off-Topic”