DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15147
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
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Contact: Website

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:44 am

tranhv68 wrote:Well, Tesla just announced their network of DC Superchargers able to deliver 95kW per hour vs. 50kW per hour for the Leaf. What is even more amazing is that Elon Musk has set a new standard for other electric car manufacturers to rise to - FREE FOREVER quick charging for all model S and probably all teslas.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/24/tesl ... #continued" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's only a matter of time before they come out with a smaller maybe lower range tesla that will compete with the Leaf and the Volt in the 38K-40K range. I imagine it will be at least 100 USABLE miles. Their superchargers are not the ChaDeMo or SAE GM standard. They don't have to be. If Nissan does not add quick chargers to their dealerships they will surely miss an opportunity to maintain their sales momentum. They've got 38000 Leafs on the road. I am one of them. I am also getting a model s and a model x and probably the next model that tesla makes. Unless Nissan gives me a compelling reason to keep my leaf or trade it in for another one, this is probably the last nissan electric car I buy.
Nissan will probably have that out in a year or so at a lower price and beat Tesla to market by probably at least 12-18 months
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 14,342.8 mi, 93.16% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mkjayakumar
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:13 am
Delivery Date: 08 Mar 2012
Location: Plano, TX

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:14 am

Without TMS I am not touching another car with a long pole..
2011 Leaf, 30K miles, returned after 24 month lease.
Currently leasing 2014 Leaf SV.

GREENEV
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:36 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Jan 2012
Leaf Number: 17351
Location: Denver, CO

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:28 am

Is there a DCQC at Nissan Headquarters in Smyrna that the public can use?
2012 LEAF: Glacier Pearl SL
Delivered 1-14-12
20,000 Miles as of 9/2014
26,000 Miles as of 8/2015

Phoenix
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:53 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1511
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:45 am

Yes but apparently out of order per posts on one of these MNL threads

GREENEV
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:36 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Jan 2012
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Location: Denver, CO

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:49 pm

That's absurd if that holds true. Nissan N.A. should have the public DCQC up and running.
2012 LEAF: Glacier Pearl SL
Delivered 1-14-12
20,000 Miles as of 9/2014
26,000 Miles as of 8/2015

aatheus
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:53 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Sep 2012

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:59 pm

Electric4Me wrote:The one dealership installed QC that I've used (Santa Rosa, CA), was great to have access to, but is only available during dealership hours as it's behind a gate that gets locked. This was fairly inconvenient for me at the time and I hope that it doesn't become a trend...
I nearly took my Leaf to visit a friend in Santa Rosa, which would require a DCFC to get home. Good thing I checked Plugshare before I left. I would have been stranded due to them locking their lot :(

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15147
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:50 pm

it is a bit "strange" that Tesla which is still essentially very much a start up, able to put in a nationwide charging system by the end of 2013 but Nissan cannot outfit their dealerships with DCFCs. If I were Nissan, i definitely would do it and require dealer permission for any non LEAF to charge.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 14,342.8 mi, 93.16% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Phoenix
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:53 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:09 pm

I think it is because Nissan is still very much an ICE culture and follows that paradigm of independent dealers and third-party QC stations. Tesla seems way ahead of the game by thinking ahead as to what EV drivers most want and need, then providing that supercharger network to sell more of their cars. Nissan should probably spin off their EV sales and marketing to a separate and independent division.

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Randy
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Location: San Diego, CA

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:19 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:it is a bit "strange" that Tesla which is still essentially very much a start up, able to put in a nationwide charging system by the end of 2013 but Nissan cannot outfit their dealerships with DCFCs. If I were Nissan, i definitely would do it and require dealer permission for any non LEAF to charge.
To me, it is almost two separate examples. Tesla only needs stations every 150-200 miles, and they've made the decision that those stations are a marketing expense (if you buy a Tesla Model S, sir, you can use our Supercharger network and take trips for free). Elon said at the Supercharger event late last year that he thought it would cost $20-$30M to build out their SC network across the US. In many cases, Tesla is installing them in semi-out-of-the-way places where power is right adjacent or nearby. That is important from an installation cost and a land acquisition/lease cost. They also minimize cost because the stations don't have to do point-of-sale billing. Plug in and charge for free...

Nissan, on the other hand, would need to install many more stations to get the same penetration or effect because of the LEAF's shorter range. In fact, it is my opinion that the dealerships are probably not the best place for Nissan to locate their DC FC stations. It would cost a LOT of money to install them at some of the dealer sites because of the 3-phase power requirements that may or may not exist there. Some dealers are close to the freeways where the DC FC would be valuable, but several of the dealers are far from freeways (which may not be as ideal for DC FC). Also, while it was listed as an option on their DC FC sales website, the early Nissan / Sumitomo models did not do billing. So if Nissan or the dealers intended to collect revenue for charging, that would cost extra for the hardware.

I think Nissan would be better off to fund a few DC FC in key metropolitan areas on or around the key in/out roads to the cities/towns so that LEAFs could use them to springboard to or from the next city or town. And if they do want to fund a grant for the stations, pay for the entire installation and don't require the host to have to pay some of the costs. That just slows down site acquisition until people come to the table that are willing to pay (and their sites may not be optimal)...

It isn't an easy problem to solve since the total installed cost of a DC FC station is much higher than people think. I'll say $15-25K for hardware (depending on features) and $15-$25K for installation (depending on available power).

So that's my two cents worth...

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15147
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: DC Quickcharging for Leafs at dealers

Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:47 pm

Randy wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:it is a bit "strange" that Tesla which is still essentially very much a start up, able to put in a nationwide charging system by the end of 2013 but Nissan cannot outfit their dealerships with DCFCs. If I were Nissan, i definitely would do it and require dealer permission for any non LEAF to charge.
To me, it is almost two separate examples. Tesla only needs stations every 150-200 miles, and they've made the decision that those stations are a marketing expense (if you buy a Tesla Model S, sir, you can use our Supercharger network and take trips for free). Elon said at the Supercharger event late last year that he thought it would cost $20-$30M to build out their SC network across the US. In many cases, Tesla is installing them in semi-out-of-the-way places where power is right adjacent or nearby. That is important from an installation cost and a land acquisition/lease cost. They also minimize cost because the stations don't have to do point-of-sale billing. Plug in and charge for free...

Nissan, on the other hand, would need to install many more stations to get the same penetration or effect because of the LEAF's shorter range. In fact, it is my opinion that the dealerships are probably not the best place for Nissan to locate their DC FC stations. It would cost a LOT of money to install them at some of the dealer sites because of the 3-phase power requirements that may or may not exist there. Some dealers are close to the freeways where the DC FC would be valuable, but several of the dealers are far from freeways (which may not be as ideal for DC FC). Also, while it was listed as an option on their DC FC sales website, the early Nissan / Sumitomo models did not do billing. So if Nissan or the dealers intended to collect revenue for charging, that would cost extra for the hardware.

I think Nissan would be better off to fund a few DC FC in key metropolitan areas on or around the key in/out roads to the cities/towns so that LEAFs could use them to springboard to or from the next city or town. And if they do want to fund a grant for the stations, pay for the entire installation and don't require the host to have to pay some of the costs. That just slows down site acquisition until people come to the table that are willing to pay (and their sites may not be optimal)...

It isn't an easy problem to solve since the total installed cost of a DC FC station is much higher than people think. I'll say $15-25K for hardware (depending on features) and $15-$25K for installation (depending on available power).

So that's my two cents worth...

there is an "after the install" maintenance issue that would be greatly complicated if not at a Nissan dealership. having it at the dealership increases brand name loyalty and recognition. I am not familiar with most dealerships not being close to the freeway unless they are in a town that is simply not on the beaten track but there are usually main county roads connecting them as the limited traffic they do have still funnels by them.

and yes, there will be some dealerships where the power upgrade requirements will be extreme but I think Nissan has to take the long view in this. Tesla's actions make it all that more imperative. what should Nissan do? wait until GM has that franken plug network installed at their dealerships first?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 14,342.8 mi, 93.16% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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