jlsoaz
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:56 am

baustin wrote:
jlsoaz wrote:
baustin wrote:Nissan doesn't own, and can't be involved with ownership of, the dealers. There's no point in them 'exploring' areas where the vehicles may be sold. If there is not a dealer that wants to expend the capital to be Nissan authorized, then Nissan vehicles are not sold there. That's pretty much all there is to it.


Hi -

Are you offering this as information that you have reason to believe is correct, about how things work in Mexico, where Nissan is the leader in light duty vehicle sales?


That is how it is in the USA. Car manufacturers do not sell direct to consumers, except for Tesla. Many states in the USA require the dealership system, and do not allow car manufacturers to own or operate dealerships. My assumption is Mexico is similar, but I do not know. The staffing and training requirements to sell and service the Leaf are a Nissan corporate requirement. If a Nissan dealer does not sell and service the Leaf, they either are unable or unwilling to meet the necessary requirements, or Nissan does not want to sell the Leaf through that dealer.


Thanks, if the want-to isn't there on the part of the dealer, then I can agree that this won't get done, whether in the US or Mexico. I'll need to make a project out of re-visiting this particular dealer and seeing (of confirming) what they want.

It may be helpful if I fill in that part of the chip on my shoulder here is also that, once in awhile it seems like the city on both sides of the line may get short shrift from outsiders in various ways. It can be in how it relates to higher up governments or commercial enterprises, or anything. Usually, if you try to zoom in and give an example, there are counterpoints to be made including that the city in the US may at times badly get in its own way, or any of a variety of other things. Still, I think at the end of those debates, and even granting that I really am kind of an outsider and not knowledgeable and don't speak half the language, .... I still think there is some validity to the hypothesis that the city on both sides can use a bit of championing.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

jlsoaz
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:08 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Do you want that second post, empty except for the quote, removed?

Yes, thanks, I deleted the content, but now I am seeing your offer, so if you do come back to this and have time, please go ahead and delete that dupe.

LeftieBiker wrote: Not to try to discourage you, but there is a second point of information I need to pass along: Nissan rarely listens to requests these days, or if they do, they ignore them. This wasn't always true, as the 2013 "V1.2" Leaf incorporated several suggestions from this site and from their Leaf Advisory Group. Since then, however, we have little to no evidence that Nissan pays any attention at all to this site. (Well, maybe my long-ago request that the Recirculate mode be operative in the Floor + Defrost vent mode.) They once again have a so-called advisory group made up of Leaf drivers, but the second version of the group now constituted, has, rumor has it, only very minimal input into changes to the cars or to corporate policy. The best evidence of this is that, despite constant pleas from Leaf drivers in the US, there is still no variable or 80% charge limit option.


It's fine, thanks, .. it's a risk and if in the end the net result of this one is that nobody from Nissan/Mexico corporate ever reads this thread and considers the pros/cons of the idea, then c'est la vie. Even though I've said it's not the priority here to get feedback from others, part of the point I think is just to get the idea out there on the public record and, even if the corporate entity does ignore the suggestion, those of us in the gallery can just discuss various ideas, for what they're worth. Also, sometimes if there is a really great idea (and I don't think this particular one is, for reasons mentioned above) then I think part of the function of this sort of post can also be over the years to serve as a bookmark, even if the corporate entity is inclined to ignore it.

I don't know to what extent Nissan is still paying any attention, but I did basically admire them around 2011-2013 for taking a progressive approach and taking what they could from the forums. It is arguably challenging for a corporate entity to have that involvement and strike the right chord.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:47 pm

jlsoaz wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:If you don't want to acquire a new Leaf, and don't personally know of other people there who do, why are you so interested in getting them to sell Leafs...? I'm puzzled.


Advocacy is not always about people we personally know. I'd like to see Nissan do well with EVs in Mexico, and I'd like to see my friends in Nogales, Sonora have access to good new cars.


As I mentioned earlier, the biggest obstacle to adoption of a Leaf (or any EV) is price. Not when you can get a Murano or even a Pathfinder for less money.

Let's not forget that this is also a country where the have/have not divide is even greater than it is in the US. It would be tough for a lot of people to even afford Nissan's cheapest new car in Mexico, the March (Micra). What more a car that costs multiples of that?

The only way I see Mexico going with EV adoption that anywhere resembles the US average (the whole country, and not just California) is to do what California/Norway/China have done is a combination of incentives and forced action. Urging manufacturers to offer a car that relatively few can afford isn't going to cut it.
Last edited by RonDawg on Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12236
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:51 pm

The only way I see Mexico going with EV adoption that anywhere resembles the US average (the whole country, and not just California) is to do what California/Norway/China have done is a combination of incentives and forced action.


Plus inexpensive EVs that can handle bad roads. Picture an iMiev with part time AWD and rugged, raised suspension.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:01 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
The only way I see Mexico going with EV adoption that anywhere resembles the US average (the whole country, and not just California) is to do what California/Norway/China have done is a combination of incentives and forced action.


Plus inexpensive EVs that can handle bad roads. Picture an iMiev with part time AWD and rugged, raised suspension.


True. I see cars with MX plates here in SoCal somewhat frequently (and more so as you get closer to San Diego) so I see models that aren't for sale in the US.

One of those cars was a Ford Ka, a microcar similar in size and format to a Fiat 500. I saw them frequently in Europe. But the one I saw on I-5 looked odd, and then I realized it had larger wheels, and possibly a raised suspension. My guess is that was done to better cope with road conditions in Central America.

I remember seeing a video about an EV that would be designed for the poor roads and electrical infrastructure of the third world. I forget what it's called but basically it makes the Coda or iMIEV look like a fully-optioned Model 3 by comparison. However it can be charged on household current (including relatively small solar panels) and more importantly it's affordable to a large amount of the population. No it doesn't have cross-country range but for trips within the village, or between village and a larger market town it would work.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

jlsoaz
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:19 pm

RonDawg wrote:As I mentioned earlier, the biggest obstacle to adoption of a Leaf (or any EV) is price. Not when you can get a Murano or even a Pathfinder for less money.

Let's not forget that this is also a country where the have/have not divide is even greater than it is in the US. It would be tough for a lot of people to even afford Nissan's cheapest new car in Mexico, the March (Micra). What more a car that costs multiples of that?

The only way I see Mexico going with EV adoption that anywhere resembles the US average (the whole country, and not just California) is to do what California/Norway/China have done is a combination of incentives and forced action. Urging manufacturers to offer a car that relatively few can afford isn't going to cut it.


Meh. Nissan is already making the Leaf readily available at a fair number of dealerships at cities throughout Mexico. This can be seen in just a few minutes of looking at the plugshare.com map:

https://www.plugshare.com

Examples, aside from the Mexico City area which is obvious:

In the state of Sonora alone, where Nogales is found, there are two larger cities than Nogales. Both have dealerships which appear to offer the Leaf:

Hermosillo:
https://www.plugshare.com/location/63830
https://www.nissangranauto.com.mx/model ... electricos

https://www.plugshare.com/location/112735
https://www.nissannissauto.com.mx/model ... electricos

Ciudad Obregon:
https://www.plugshare.com/location/95341
https://www.nissanobregon.com.mx/modelo ... electricos

Here is another border town, albeit much larger in population, in another state, which appears to offer the Leaf:

Ciudad Juarez
https://www.plugshare.com/location/118452
https://www.nissanjuarez.com/modelos-ni ... electricos

I could go on, but it is not my intention to try to imply that the Leaf is very widely for sale throughout Mexico, nor that sales are going that well. In fact, if we look at a few of the plugshare.com entries, we see that in some cases that are not many recent reviews.

In theory the Leaf was announced for sale in Mexico 5 years ago.

https://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa ... -in-mexico
Jun 4, 2014
Nissan becomes the first company to sell a 100% electric vehicle in Mexico

"...Initially, the Nissan LEAF in Mexico will be available for sale through Nissan's certified dealership network located in Mexico City.

"In addition, Nissan and the Government of the State of Morelos have taken the initiative to create the first electric corridor in Latin America that will be located between Mexico City and Cuernavaca...."


I don't quickly see information about Leaf or overall Mexico EV sales but as of 2017 overall EV sales appear to have been modest:
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/76000 ... nk-355.png

So, I don't want to get into trying to say Mexico (which is an oil country after all) has some huge potential and there are all kinds of Leafs already being sold there, and I've already mentioned that the fact that the climate is relatively not much good for the way the Leaf is set up is a concern (though Nissan seems to be going ahead anyway). Still, if sales are going to be done there, and if the decision has been taken by local dealers in Hermosillo and Ciudad Obregon, then maybe a good next step would be Nogales.

Other points:

- A few years back the Tucson EV Association did a really good job of some teamwork and communication with EV Enthusiasts (Association Members?) in Hermosillo. The enthusiasts took the lead on some of the effort to convince the powers-that-be (whether the dealers and/or others) to offer Leafs there, and in the end the decision was apparently taken to offer Leafs there. I don't know if business has been good or not. So, part of what I have in mind is to suggest in a moderate way that Nogales also could be a candidate, as the next largest city in the state, after the two that already have Leafs for sale.

- At the Tucson EV Association we have talked a bit about the Green "Cactus Highway" extending in theory from Vegas down through Hermosillo. It's just a concept, but I find it helpful.

- Nogales, SON does have its share of issues. There is crime, poverty, poor infrastructure and the issue of haves and have-nots. I do think these things are relevant to mention. But I also think it's important that we not fall into the trap over over-simplifying and forming ideas just from a few shallow stories from national news. There is plenty to be said for it, including a University, its share of Maquiladoras, some good neighborhoods, and working professionals (Doctors, Dentists, etc.) who are just going about their business.

- It's a side point, but I like to look at the map of the country and see how the program by Grupo Posadas to install stations at its hotels throughout the country has helped put Mexico on the EV travel map. Here is the one hotel in Nogales, SON that offers charging:
https://www.plugshare.com/location/154486
Note that there is no hotel on the US side of Nogales that offers any charging.

Anyway, I don't want to over-emphasize this suggestion to Nissan because in the end there are drawbacks some of which have been spelled out here by me or others. But I do want to provide decent information on both sides of the suggestion.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

jlsoaz
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:02 pm

One other thing -

Auto theft is definitely a problem in Nogales, Mexico. Since the Leaf seems to be seldom successfully stolen (though I don't know for sure) then maybe that would make it additionally valuable to buyers in that city.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

jlsoaz
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:43 pm

Related, but not the same issue:

A year or two ago I took a drive down to San Carlos with some friends. The size of the project to improve large portions of the highway between Nogales and Hermosillo was remarkable. It seemed a pity that evidently there was no thinking going on as to installing charging stations, but I'm hopeful, in light of the improvement in the road and the EVs in Hermosillo and Tucson, there will be a few spots where stations will be installed.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

Return to “Suggestions for Nissan”