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Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:07 pm
by BestPal
In fact, I offered to keep the log and pay back every kwh that I'm using because large companies are able to negotiate much better rate than residential rate. $0.11 vs $0.15 per kwh in my case. According to some that must be pretty embarrassing too and should look bad on a company trying to save 4 cents. I was told no need to keep a log or pay back for used kwh. Aghhhh, I need to stop, getting sick of this...

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:14 pm
by BestPal
dgpcolorado wrote:
BestPal wrote:I didn't want to start any wars here. I apologize if that sounded harsh but just because Ray said he didn't understand the need for those feature, doesn't mean that there is none. And asking for the existing software to accommodate such simple features (that from my understanding were there in 2011-2012 models) is not outrageous. Is it?
The base S model is missing a lot of features of the SV and SL models, both 2011/2012 and 2013. That's why it costs much less. One feature missing is the more sophisticated charge timer. That's what happens with "stripper" models: the car is functional but is missing some nice-to-have features of the more expensive models.

Your concerns seem a bit like "buyer's remorse". Suggesting that Nissan add back features to the base S model, via software updates, is unrealistic, IMHO.
I agree that to bring the price down some actual "nicies" are taken out, such as carwings, and GPS, and a large screen, and alloy wheels etc. That's logical and I'm fine with that. But it doesn't mean that software needs to be purposely "dumbed down" - there is no cost savings in doing that.

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:34 pm
by dgpcolorado
BestPal wrote:I agree that to bring the price down some actual "nicies" are taken out, such as carwings, and GPS, and a large screen, and alloy wheels etc. That's logical and I'm fine with that. But it doesn't mean that software needs to be purposely "dumbed down" - there is no cost savings in doing that.
Please understand that the charging timers on the SV/SL models are part of the that Carwings/Nav system that was deleted in the S model. The charge timer in the S model is new. My guess—and that's all it is—is that Nissan tried to make it simple and basic for those who don't want to fuss with things on the simple, basic S model. You plug it in, it charges. You want to charge in time for a trip, set the end-time charge timer. You want to charge now, regardless of timer setting, push the override button. For most people that's plenty of complexity as it is.

Many of us use end-time-only charge timer settings because it has several advantages, among them simplicity. I think Nissan was wise to use this in their new simple S model timer algorithm. Your very complex preferred charging scheme is something of an outlier. You might be surprised at the number of people who don't set any charge timers on their older LEAF models: they just plug it in and let it charge to 100% and give it no other thought. That's the other extreme!

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:52 pm
by GregH
BestPal wrote:What was embarrassing, the fact that I want to optimize efficiency of transportation and out of pocket expenses as much as possible?
It should be pointed out that in the big picture, L1 charging is not very efficient...

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:07 pm
by BestPal
GregH wrote:
BestPal wrote:What was embarrassing, the fact that I want to optimize efficiency of transportation and out of pocket expenses as much as possible?
It should be pointed out that in the big picture, L1 charging is not very efficient...
Didn't know that. What's the loss from wall to battery in % on L1 vs L2? Not having the facts, I've so far just assumed a 10% loss. Would love to see the exact numbers.

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:10 pm
by KJD
The most efficient way to use the power grid is to charge at night when the load is light. Charging during the day just adds to the peak load on the grid. Not a good thing to do.

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:23 pm
by BestPal
GregH wrote:Wow, after that long write up now MY head is spinning.. This is a lot of mental energy over 10% charge..
If you really want to charge to 70% rather than 80% then set the TO timer to a time AFTER your departure and just unplug it during charge.

As for enforcing a start time (say midnight for example), try a mechanical timer on your EVSE.
I've got an old hot water heater mechanical timer on the 240V to my EVSE (installed by Edison in 1997 for the EV1). With my first Leaf I disabled it and tried to come up with a plan to program all the fancy timers on the Leaf even though it meant remembering to disable the whole mess when I was charging away from home. (side note: couldn't they use GPS for this? if you have GPS that is... I mean the NAV system on the SL lets you select a chime noise when you reach a destination(!) Not sure what the point of that is other than to mute my music every time I reach said programmed destination... but wouldn't it be nice to say "Only use the charge timer when I'm at HOME!"?!?!? Just sayin')

Now I don't use any of the Leaf charge timers.. My old hot water heater timer turns on the EVSE at 5am and I usually leave for work at 7:30 so that's about 100 Gids (35%) or so.. Similarly at work I plug in to a 240V EVSE a few hours before departure. My Leaf spends most of its life between 30% and 70%.
Brilliant, I love your elegant solution to charge to my exactly needed percentage every time without doing all that messy math. Thank you! And a mechanical timer - I will look into that too. Those are really really good suggestions. Notwithstanding that nissan could've given us a fully functional timer, especially when a salesman at the dealership specifically told me that there is one in the S model BEFORE I bought it. He just failed to mention it's not a fully functional one. As I found out later - he didn't even know. Neither did his manager. Neither did the owner of the dealership... none of them knew about limited charging timer on the S model. Oh.. well. Now they do.

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:33 pm
by GregH
I'm pulling this out of my (rather poor) memory.. someone else will surely have better numbers. But I seem to recall 3.3kW L2 charging being close to 90% efficient whereas 1kW L1 charging was somewhere in the 75%-80% range.. (?)

And yes, it boggles the mind how they can spend all that money to make a new crippled version of the software in order to justify to the customer selling them a vehicle at a lower price... I mean leaving out hardware is one thing, but re-writing software is far different. Don't even get me started on the excluded cruise control. An EV (or hybrid or any by-wire vehicle) without cruise control is criminal.

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:42 pm
by BestPal
GregH wrote:I'm pulling this out of my (rather poor) memory.. someone else will surely have better numbers. But I seem to recall 3.3kW L2 charging being close to 90% efficient whereas 1kW L1 charging was somewhere in the 75%-80% range.. (?)

And yes, it boggles the mind how they can spend all that money to make a new crippled version of the software in order to justify to the customer selling them a vehicle at a lower price... I mean leaving out hardware is one thing, but re-writing software is far different. Don't even get me started on the excluded cruise control. An EV (or hybrid or any by-wire vehicle) without cruise control is criminal.
Gzzzz THANK YOU. Someone could hear me.

Re: Pls give us START time in "charging timer" - 2013 Leaf S

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:45 pm
by davewill
BestPal wrote:That's very presumptuous of you. Director of facilities at my company offered L1 charging to me and suggested to use it to max and he wants an electric car and he is not happy that he didn't get a free L2 charger approved to be installed like some other companies have (6 of them at Pechanga casino). If anything we might push for a free L2 in the future and set another example for the companies to follow. What did you say I'm ruining? I couldn't quite hear you.
So? That just means you AND the Dir. of Facilities are taking advantage of the company. I'm glad you won't personally run into any problems, but it still seems pretty picayune to try and shave that tiny bit off your home charging.